Will the Cavs make the playoffs?

[toker]

Originally Posted by IcE MiX

oh and toker ..you idiot. like Joro said...in the clutch situation...Would hack a shaq with his piece of shit FT percentage get the ball..or Kobe with his 85 percent plus FT percentage ..who cooly would knock down the FT's to win the game.. yeah thats right KOBE..but OH Shaq did everything kobe was a shitty sidekick.... And by your STAT logic.. allen iverson is trash considering he shot in 01 finals 40 percent and 28 percent from three and considering how many times he shoots the ball ..and his percentage..he's horrible right? get the fuck outta here ...if iverson won that finals ..people wouldn't give a shit about his stats..the fact he won and he was the leader of the team was enough.

quit dwelling on stats or rings..and utilize both in evaluating a player.. fucking people stick to one without seeing the other side. Magic Johnson had 5 rings.. and Lost in one finals to MJ yet people still consider him in the conversation of best player ever

u stupid fuck of course a guard will have a higher FT than a bigman.... but the only way kobe can hit those clutch shots is if the team is in position to win the game.. kobe aint hittin some game winner if hes down 20 pts..

plus kobes overrated in the clutch.. espn already showed his stats in game winnin situations.

AI is trash.. no defense, horible teammate, takes 30 shots to score 30, ball hog, u name it..

an magic aint the best player ever.. u see the teammates he had??

how u gonna have kareem, then get the number 1 pick to land magic and then get another number 1 pick to land worthy???

i bet the nba rigged that shit back in thee day to keep a lakers/celtics rivalry

[IcE MiX]

And guess what, shaq and the magic got swept..so his numbers no matter how high meant nothing. Hakeem schooled shaq during those finals. And if you wanna talk numbers go look at Kobe's 06-07 campaign which had comparable numbers to Lebron's last year campaign and he wasn't recognized for taking a starting laker team with KWAME BROWN AND SMUSH PARKER to the playoffs and coming a few shots away from beating the suns..(yes if they would have won those games game 7 blow up wouldnt have occured). And if you want to talk NBA rigging shit, then you debunk your whole argument considering Jordan was the poster child of the NBA during the 90's and its prime years...so anyone who says Kobe gets every call go look at MJ back in the day...MJ never had to play the zone defense..yeah they call tackier calls today and its more pussy than it was before, I'll give you that because it bugs the shit out of me...but don't discredit Kobe's achievements..and he just turned 30 and just started peaking....you can argue kobe already hit his prime physically..but mentally he finally has in being able to play effective team basketball with team mates that actually have some know-how.

Kobe aint clutch? wow...

YouTube - Kobe Bryant - Clutch in High-Def (clutch shots compilation 2007-2009)

YouTube - Kobe Bryant Clutch Performances

The only player close to him today is Melo Then D Wade, Lebron is far from clutch aside from that shot in the playoffs last year.

[IcE MiX]

and if you consider BYNUM Anything close to what pippen was..then lets factor in the lack of bynum and ariza during the celtics lakers 08 finals..where they had neither of those guys... who knows what would have happened if they were healthy. Pippen hit his prime when Jordan hit his prime, PIPPEN ALONE took the bulls to a game away frm the NBA FINALS the year Jordan was gone..so don't tell me MJ didn't have support like Kobe has

[DannyC]

wtf are u smoking crack?

bynum and pippen?

lakers fans are fucking idiots.

[Joro]

Originally Posted by IcE MiX

and if you consider BYNUM Anything close to what pippen was..then lets factor in the lack of bynum and ariza during the celtics lakers 08 finals..

LOL....exactly

DannyC...read a couple posts back...these Kobe haters are tryna say Bynum is Kobe's equivalent to Jordan having Pippen.....

[toker]

last time i checked bynum was a lottery pick


aint jordans fault kobe cant make players better


odom and gasol are 2 more lottery picks

[toker]

Originally Posted by IcE MiX

And guess what, shaq and the magic got swept..so his numbers no matter how high meant nothing. Hakeem schooled shaq during those finals. And if you wanna talk numbers go look at Kobe's 06-07 campaign which had comparable numbers to Lebron's last year campaign and he wasn't recognized for taking a starting laker team with KWAME BROWN AND SMUSH PARKER to the playoffs and coming a few shots away from beating the suns..(yes if they would have won those games game 7 blow up wouldnt have occured). And if you want to talk NBA rigging shit, then you debunk your whole argument considering Jordan was the poster child of the NBA during the 90's and its prime years...so anyone who says Kobe gets every call go look at MJ back in the day...MJ never had to play the zone defense..yeah they call tackier calls today and its more pussy than it was before, I'll give you that because it bugs the shit out of me...but don't discredit Kobe's achievements..and he just turned 30 and just started peaking....you can argue kobe already hit his prime physically..but mentally he finally has in being able to play effective team basketball with team mates that actually have some know-how.

Kobe aint clutch? wow...

YouTube - Kobe Bryant - Clutch in High-Def (clutch shots compilation 2007-2009)

YouTube - Kobe Bryant Clutch Performances

The only player close to him today is Melo Then D Wade, Lebron is far from clutch aside from that shot in the playoffs last year.

even if hakeem did school shaq, shaq at least put up good numbers


kobe sucked cock and he wasnt even going up against a HOF like shaq did



so basically kobe sucked vs some reg ass player while shaq still put up shaq like numbers vs a all time great

[Joro]

Originally Posted by toker

last time i checked bynum was a lottery pick


aint jordans fault kobe cant make players better


odom and gasol are 2 more lottery picks

LOL

Michael Oluwakandi was a lottery pick (1st overall, in fact) .....Kwame Brown was a lottery pick (1st overal, in fact) .....

Being drafted in the lottery doesn't mean you can be compared to Scottie Pippen, who was on the NBA's list of all-time top 50 players.

I realize now you're too dumb to argue with. If I felt you were worth it, I'd look up how many of Jordan's teammates were actually drafted in the lottery...by the Bulls, or by other teams then came to the Bulls via free-agency or trade.

You'd then realize that MJ wasn't a magician who carried a bunch of 2nd-round draft-picks to six Championships.

edit*..I did it anyway....1)Horace Grant, drafted #10 by Chicago...... 2) Scottie Pippen, drafted #5 by Seattle .....3)Bill Cartwright, drafted #3 by New York Knicks .....

Those were just the first three I looked up. You can also add Toni Kukoc to the list, who at the time he was signed by Chicago was the best player in the world not in the NBA....which would've made him an automatic lottery pick. They called him "The Michael Jordan of Europe" ....

[Joro]

Originally Posted by toker

even if hakeem did school shaq, shaq at least put up good numbers


kobe sucked cock and he wasnt even going up against a HOF like shaq did



so basically kobe sucked vs some reg ass player while shaq still put up shaq like numbers vs a all time great

What, Shaq shot 58 percent? Was he making jumpshots or something?

No...he got the ball 5 feet from the rim and either turned and dunked or put up a chip shot. And he missed 4 out of ten times.

Meanwhile, Olajuwon was housing him on the other end....which is why Shaq's team lost.

[Mark Eaton]

Originally Posted by Ignorant

No, I like sacks, but I think it gets overused when measuring a D-line player's ability... like they never mention regular tackles or tackles for loss or QB pressures or pass breakups. It's like if a D-line player has a low sack year, he sucks. When that's crazy. I don't see them giving the same pressures to DB's with interceptions. You can still be a shutdown corner and have few INT's, because if you're locking down, the QB won't throw in your direction as much.

agreed i see where ur coming from

1 stat is not indicative of performance

[DannyC]

Originally Posted by Joro

LOL....exactly

DannyC...read a couple posts back...these Kobe haters are tryna say Bynum is Kobe's equivalent to Jordan having Pippen.....

i disagree with that whole heartedly

bynum is the equivalent of cartwright for the time being

if u said gasol id agree.

[toker]

Originally Posted by Joro

LOL

Michael Oluwakandi was a lottery pick (1st overall, in fact) .....Kwame Brown was a lottery pick (1st overal, in fact) .....

Being drafted in the lottery doesn't mean you can be compared to Scottie Pippen, who was on the NBA's list of all-time top 50 players.

I realize now you're too dumb to argue with. If I felt you were worth it, I'd look up how many of Jordan's teammates were actually drafted in the lottery...by the Bulls, or by other teams then came to the Bulls via free-agency or trade.

You'd then realize that MJ wasn't a magician who carried a bunch of 2nd-round draft-picks to six Championships.

edit*..I did it anyway....1)Horace Grant, drafted #10 by Chicago...... 2) Scottie Pippen, drafted #5 by Seattle .....3)Bill Cartwright, drafted #3 by New York Knicks .....

Those were just the first three I looked up. You can also add Toni Kukoc to the list, who at the time he was signed by Chicago was the best player in the world not in the NBA....which would've made him an automatic lottery pick. They called him "The Michael Jordan of Europe" ....

nope kobes had countless other lottery picks around him.. cant hold it against jordan that his teammates actual developed into a HOF

u throw out kukoc, grant, pipper, etc

i counter with shaq, bynum, gasol, odom, glen rice, eddie jones, robert horry, etc..


so kobes had just as much if not more high picks with him... only difference jordan was the lead dog on all his teams.. kobe only on 2 of his finals appearances..

[toker]

Originally Posted by Joro

What, Shaq shot 58 percent? Was he making jumpshots or something?

No...he got the ball 5 feet from the rim and either turned and dunked or put up a chip shot. And he missed 4 out of ten times.

Meanwhile, Olajuwon was housing him on the other end....which is why Shaq's team lost.

so now u want to discredit him cus they way he scored??? shaq lost to a better team simple as that..


lol lakers fans

[Joro]

Originally Posted by toker

so now u want to discredit him cus they way he scored??? shaq lost to a better team simple as that..


lol lakers fans

Against the Pistons...Kobe lost to a better team, simple as that.

Even tho he had the great Shaquille O'neill with him.

Kobe did try tho....you may remember that game-winning three in game 2.

[Joro]

Originally Posted by toker

nope kobes had countless other lottery picks around him.. cant hold it against jordan that his teammates actual developed into a HOF

u throw out kukoc, grant, pipper, etc

i counter with shaq, bynum, gasol, odom, glen rice, eddie jones, robert horry, etc..


so kobes had just as much if not more high picks with him... only difference jordan was the lead dog on all his teams.. kobe only on 2 of his finals appearances..

Again, it's debatable who was the top-dog on the first three Lakers Championships. It's debatable now, and it was debatable then. The inability to resolve this debate is the reason why the team broke up.

But facts are facts. In the clutch, the Lakers went to Kobe. And forced to pick which player to keep and which to let go, they decided to keep Kobe, and trade Shaq.

"These are the facts, your honor, and they are indisputable."

[toker]

Originally Posted by Joro

Against the Pistons...Kobe lost to a better team, simple as that.

Even tho he had the great Shaquille O'neill with him.

Kobe did try tho....you may remember that game-winning three in game 2.

i love how u mention 1 SHOT by kobe but ignore the fact he shot 38% from the field that SERIES..

shaq outplayed kobe just like every finals they played together

[toker]

Originally Posted by Joro

Again, it's debatable who was the top-dog on the first three Lakers Championships. It's debatable now, and it was debatable then. The inability to resolve this debate is the reason why the team broke up.

But facts are facts. In the clutch, the Lakers went to Kobe. And forced to pick which player to keep and which to let go, they decided to keep Kobe, and trade Shaq.

"These are the facts, your honor, and they are indisputable."

lol

shaq had better numbers in the reg season..shaq had better numbers in the playoffs.. shaq had better numbers in the finals.. shaq won all 3 finals mvps.. shaq won a MVP..

and the only reason why they let go of shaq was age.. if they were the same age nobody would pick kobe..

kobes only good when he gots talent around him..

[Joro]

The only reason Shaq had better numbers was age...can't give a 20-year-old kid all the touches when your 90 million dollar investment is in his prime and has a huge ego ("I'm the Most Dominant Ever")

But, with 4 seconds left and the game on the line, ego doesn't matter cuz the ego-boosting stats are already in the box-score.

No....with 4 seconds left all that matters is who can get the job done - Kobe.

Kobe's only good with talent around him? Maybe....but Shaq has yet to win a Championship without a premier Top 3 Superstar playing with him. And he never will.

Kobe's done it.

[IcE MiX]

"I find it interesting that one of the big arguments the LBJ backers use is how he is surpassing Kobe's "youngest to X" records. Yet Kobe hit those milestones well ahead of MJ, and many of the same people don't feel that it makes Kobe better than MJ"

Pivot Points: "Kobe Or LeBron" Is No Debate At All | Bleacher Report

[toker]

Originally Posted by Joro

The only reason Shaq had better numbers was age...can't give a 20-year-old kid all the touches when your 90 million dollar investment is in his prime and has a huge ego ("I'm the Most Dominant Ever")

But, with 4 seconds left and the game on the line, ego doesn't matter cuz the ego-boosting stats are already in the box-score.

No....with 4 seconds left all that matters is who can get the job done - Kobe.

Kobe's only good with talent around him? Maybe....but Shaq has yet to win a Championship without a premier Top 3 Superstar playing with him. And he never will.

Kobe's done it.

derek fisher and robert horry hit bigger shots than kobe did