Anfernee Hardaway >>>>>>> Lebron James

Radium · 07-20-2008, 08:08 AM

Reality

Hardkore the MC · 07-20-2008, 09:31 AM

i love that nas song.

As Seen On Tv · 07-20-2008, 09:48 AM

i agree!

penny hardaway is my favorite player

EVER

DaAlmightyDolla · 07-20-2008, 11:11 AM

the reason im a magic fan

Niggedawgg · 07-20-2008, 11:54 AM

no way

Radium · 07-20-2008, 12:03 PM

*waits for Lebron James fan to come in here and thus be given the ether to make his soul burn slow*

I dont know if people really realize that Hardaway had the potential to be among the greatest ever or at least a consensus top tier legend. The tenacity, the flawless passing and court vision.....his unrivaled quickness and decision making...his jumper was lights out...he had his own doll

and then god decided to take away his knees.

Hardkore the MC · 07-20-2008, 12:57 PM

penny's first four seasons:
season 1 - 16 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 6.6 apg.
season 2 - 20.9 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 7.2 apg.
season 3 - 21.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 7.1 apg.
season 4 - 20.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.6 apg.

lebron's first four seasons:
season 1 - 20.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg.
season 2 - 27.2 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 7.2 apg.
season 3 - 31.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 6.6 apg.
season 4 - 27.3 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 6.0 apg.

you wildin', nigga. i know this is a joke, but i think we all got it.

As Seen On Tv · 07-20-2008, 01:01 PM

^^ nah

im talkn about how dope he was

so far, they both have done the same in accomplishments sorta say

they both made it to the finals...and both got swept

penny was DOPE mah nigga

Jesus Carpenter · 07-20-2008, 02:24 PM

Penny was cold... key word: WAS... he never reached his full potential...

Lebron is a damn beast... and it dont look like he'll be slowing down anytime soon...

Penny was a better shooter though... But Lebron is so much better than he was at this point... keep in mind Penny went to college, Lebron didnt....

and no, i'm not a Lebron fan, I could never cheer for Cleveland...

Fatal is back · 07-20-2008, 03:55 PM

Same accomplishments? When did penny become the youngest player to score 10,000? When did penny become the 3rd rookie ever to average 20-5-5? when did penny become the 3rd player to ever average 30-8-7? ahh yeah he didn't. Oh yea penny wasn't the man on the team that got swept shaq was. Matter face enlighten me...what did he accomplish? i mean record book wise.

Radium · 07-20-2008, 11:55 PM

Lebron plays in a system that revolves around him. He will never win a ring because of this. He will score many points and stack up big stat book numbers that ultimately mean nothing because the system he plays in is designed for him to do this and nothing else.

Penny played as a supporting role inside of a very good TEAM that played against some of the very best teams in NBA history in an era where the NBA was a defensively tougher league (Penny, D-Scott, Nick Anderson, Horace Grant, Shaq...of course his stats won't compare; contributions are more spread out amongst the team as a whole)

Compare both of their actual skills. Hardaway p4p is more skilled this is unquestionable. He has far greater court vision, is quicker, better shooter/slasher, far greater passer.... to the point where it seemed that the defense simply did not know what he was doing when he had the ball. in his physical prime he was rated only under one man...Jordan.

Penny played the way Lebron should play, but doesn't because the league was more concerned about creating another cover book face player that puts up big numbers in a system that is designed for him to do just that.

Those are just special effects, smoke and mirrors....

dont let that fool you

A prime Anfernee Hardaway's game >>> Lebron James' game

Kobe Brahant · 07-21-2008, 01:10 AM

I'm not seeing it, and that's coming from one of the world's biggest Penny fans.

Penny may have been more skilled in the areas you mentioned, but a player being more skilled than another doesn't necessarily mean they're a better overall player. What you're saying reminds me of when Rippy spotted Derrick Rose and automatically thought he would be "better than LeBron" in a few years all because he shot better (check), dribbled better (check) and passed better (check).

It doesn't always work that way... Yao Ming is probably more "skilled" than Shaq has ever been in a number of categories, but does he or will he ever have the same impactful force on the game? Doubtful.

And, don't sleep on LeBron's court vision and playmaking... he's gotten quite a bit out of the lackluster cast surrounding him with the way he opens up the floor and sets the table for them. Even if his method of scoring is repetitive or heavily reliant on his brutish athleticism ala Shaq in the Paint... it gets results at a high clip.

I can't see LeBron getting swept in the NBA Finals with the Diesel and Nick Anderson as two of his floormates. Not with the way he's carried his squad to the heights he has despite the East being a weaker conference (and, the entire league's softer defenses in general) than it was back in the day.

Make no mistake about it though. Penny was a hardwood deity that isn't quite fully appreciated to this day, but he wasn't on LeBron's level.

Radium · 07-21-2008, 01:53 AM

place Lebron into that 90's Magic team and he would be forced to change his game dramatically. He would have to take second seat to Shaq, take less shots, and become largely a supplier to O'neal. In a system like this, a player like Hardaway is actually more effective for the obvious reasons that he is more suited at being a supplier and a secondary scoring option. The great irony is that to truly succeed in a system like this he would have to play more like Penny.

Place Lebron into that 90's Magic team and he would also have to go to war with the Jordan Bulls and the Olajuwon Rockets super-teams among the host of other great teams that thrived in what was arguably the greatest era of basketball in history. It was truly different then than it is today.

my primary argument is that Lebron James playing style forces the team to take backseat to him and a style like this can never truly accomplish much in a grand sense. Its kind of just nice looking but not actually of any real worth in the end. In a more integrated system Lebron's weaknesses come to light.

Kobe Brahant · 07-21-2008, 11:20 AM

I think its more an issue of LeBron's teammates' collective ability level that forces them to take the backseat than it is LeBron's own playing style.

And, he gets a lot of his points from transition and quick, decisive moves to the basket. He's not the type that will really disrupt a team's flow, so he'd probably integrate with a team like the 90's Magic just fine. LeBron is a team player who's looking to dish often, and I don't see why he wouldn't be willing to defer to the young and robust Shaq Diesel if he had him on his squad.

Can you image those two charging down the court for a 2-on-1 fastbreak with the defender not knowing who was going to bring the thunder?

Having O'Neal out there on the floor with him would free up a lot of the defensive attention he's been getting in Cleveland, so a few of his attributes may actually improve (shooting, for one).

The way I see it... you take LeBron and put him in Old School Penny's place back then, you'd have a scary squad. You take Old School Penny and put him in LeBron's place today, and I don't think you see Cleveland having the success they've been having today.

The Franchise · 07-21-2008, 01:00 PM

Lebron is a team player without a team...

watch allstar game footage... hell watch the upcoming Olympics...

dude has no problem taking a back seat... but who on clevelands roster can he take a backseat to?

Szerbiak?

K-Skills · 07-21-2008, 08:46 PM

damn Penny was ill back in the day.

CaTchW0n · 07-22-2008, 01:05 AM

1:02, 2:03 is greatness. Without Microfracture knee surgery I think we're talking
Penny top 5 guard of all time. Points and Shooting guards.

07-20-2008, 08:08 AM	#1 (permalink)
Radium Tommy Brown Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: School (your life is temporary but your soul is eternal) Posts: 1,486	Anfernee Hardaway >>>>>>> Lebron James Reality __________________ Stribling bled freely in the final round - Sharkey punished him savagely Last edited by Radium; 07-20-2008 at 08:34 AM.

07-20-2008, 09:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
As Seen On Tv josh hamltn ur high pitch Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: 973/718 Posts: 21,762	i agree! penny hardaway is my favorite player EVER __________________ ("This the type of nigga that you spot 20 points to in a game of 21, then when he sink a lucky one he starts singin "We are the champions!") -Reflex shittin' all over Odd Job's worthless ass life. ("anybody muhfuckin' talkin' shit can suck my dick, anybody, ANYBODY!") -Odd Job basically admittin' to bein' a bisexual. call me god like u from wu tang

07-20-2008, 11:11 AM	#4 (permalink)
DaAlmightyDolla The Ecc3ntric 1 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: outside the box but within my own mind Posts: 8,357	the reason im a magic fan __________________ <~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~> I can kill every single last 1 of you but then who will be left to make me feel superior? *** Code Geass = your fav animes favorite anime *** Negro in '08 , Sp1c in '12? <~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~<>~>

07-20-2008, 11:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
Niggedawgg Errorist Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,685	no way __________________ diamonds big like dan dierdorf

07-20-2008, 12:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
Radium Tommy Brown Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: School (your life is temporary but your soul is eternal) Posts: 1,486	waits for Lebron James fan to come in here and thus be given the ether to make his soul burn slow I dont know if people really realize that Hardaway had the potential to be among the greatest ever or at least a consensus top tier legend. The tenacity, the flawless passing and court vision.....his unrivaled quickness and decision making...his jumper was lights out...he had his own doll and then god decided to take away his knees. __________________ Stribling bled freely in the final round - Sharkey punished him savagely

07-20-2008, 01:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
As Seen On Tv josh hamltn ur high pitch Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: 973/718 Posts: 21,762	^^ nah im talkn about how dope he was so far, they both have done the same in accomplishments sorta say they both made it to the finals...and both got swept penny was DOPE mah nigga __________________ ("This the type of nigga that you spot 20 points to in a game of 21, then when he sink a lucky one he starts singin "We are the champions!") -Reflex shittin' all over Odd Job's worthless ass life. ("anybody muhfuckin' talkin' shit can suck my dick, anybody, ANYBODY!") -Odd Job basically admittin' to bein' a bisexual. call me god like u from wu tang

07-20-2008, 02:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
Jesus Carpenter Favorite Son Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Chillin on the cross Posts: 237	Penny was cold... key word: WAS... he never reached his full potential... Lebron is a damn beast... and it dont look like he'll be slowing down anytime soon... Penny was a better shooter though... But Lebron is so much better than he was at this point... keep in mind Penny went to college, Lebron didnt.... and no, i'm not a Lebron fan, I could never cheer for Cleveland... __________________ Last † Words "JESUS DOESN'T LOVE YOU..."

07-20-2008, 03:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
Fatal is back Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Akron ohio Posts: 1,716	Same accomplishments? When did penny become the youngest player to score 10,000? When did penny become the 3rd rookie ever to average 20-5-5? when did penny become the 3rd player to ever average 30-8-7? ahh yeah he didn't. Oh yea penny wasn't the man on the team that got swept shaq was. Matter face enlighten me...what did he accomplish? i mean record book wise. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/shaunaaron

07-20-2008, 11:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
Radium Tommy Brown Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: School (your life is temporary but your soul is eternal) Posts: 1,486	Lebron plays in a system that revolves around him. He will never win a ring because of this. He will score many points and stack up big stat book numbers that ultimately mean nothing because the system he plays in is designed for him to do this and nothing else. Penny played as a supporting role inside of a very good TEAM that played against some of the very best teams in NBA history in an era where the NBA was a defensively tougher league (Penny, D-Scott, Nick Anderson, Horace Grant, Shaq...of course his stats won't compare; contributions are more spread out amongst the team as a whole) Compare both of their actual skills. Hardaway p4p is more skilled this is unquestionable. He has far greater court vision, is quicker, better shooter/slasher, far greater passer.... to the point where it seemed that the defense simply did not know what he was doing when he had the ball. in his physical prime he was rated only under one man...Jordan. Penny played the way Lebron should play, but doesn't because the league was more concerned about creating another cover book face player that puts up big numbers in a system that is designed for him to do just that. Those are just special effects, smoke and mirrors.... dont let that fool you A prime Anfernee Hardaway's game >>> Lebron James' game __________________ Stribling bled freely in the final round - Sharkey punished him savagely Last edited by Radium; 07-21-2008 at 12:01 AM.

07-21-2008, 01:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
Kobe Brahant Black Mamba Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Staples Center Posts: 160	I'm not seeing it, and that's coming from one of the world's biggest Penny fans. Penny may have been more skilled in the areas you mentioned, but a player being more skilled than another doesn't necessarily mean they're a better overall player. What you're saying reminds me of when Rippy spotted Derrick Rose and automatically thought he would be "better than LeBron" in a few years all because he shot better (check), dribbled better (check) and passed better (check). It doesn't always work that way... Yao Ming is probably more "skilled" than Shaq has ever been in a number of categories, but does he or will he ever have the same impactful force on the game? Doubtful. And, don't sleep on LeBron's court vision and playmaking... he's gotten quite a bit out of the lackluster cast surrounding him with the way he opens up the floor and sets the table for them. Even if his method of scoring is repetitive or heavily reliant on his brutish athleticism ala Shaq in the Paint... it gets results at a high clip. I can't see LeBron getting swept in the NBA Finals with the Diesel and Nick Anderson as two of his floormates. Not with the way he's carried his squad to the heights he has despite the East being a weaker conference (and, the entire league's softer defenses in general) than it was back in the day. Make no mistake about it though. Penny was a hardwood deity that isn't quite fully appreciated to this day, but he wasn't on LeBron's level. __________________ b 2007-08 NBA Most Valuable Player c Kobe Brahant #24 \| G Selected in the first round (13th pick overall) of the 1996 NBA Draft Height: 6-6 / 1,98 Weight: 220 lbs / 99,8 kg High School: Lower Mantra HS (Panchkula, India) 卍卍卍 [ 卍卍卍 Last edited by Kobe Brahant; 07-21-2008 at 01:15 AM.

07-21-2008, 01:53 AM	#13 (permalink)
Radium Tommy Brown Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: School (your life is temporary but your soul is eternal) Posts: 1,486	place Lebron into that 90's Magic team and he would be forced to change his game dramatically. He would have to take second seat to Shaq, take less shots, and become largely a supplier to O'neal. In a system like this, a player like Hardaway is actually more effective for the obvious reasons that he is more suited at being a supplier and a secondary scoring option. The great irony is that to truly succeed in a system like this he would have to play more like Penny. Place Lebron into that 90's Magic team and he would also have to go to war with the Jordan Bulls and the Olajuwon Rockets super-teams among the host of other great teams that thrived in what was arguably the greatest era of basketball in history. It was truly different then than it is today. my primary argument is that Lebron James playing style forces the team to take backseat to him and a style like this can never truly accomplish much in a grand sense. Its kind of just nice looking but not actually of any real worth in the end. In a more integrated system Lebron's weaknesses come to light. __________________ Stribling bled freely in the final round - Sharkey punished him savagely

07-21-2008, 11:20 AM	#14 (permalink)
Kobe Brahant Black Mamba Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Staples Center Posts: 160	I think its more an issue of LeBron's teammates' collective ability level that forces them to take the backseat than it is LeBron's own playing style. And, he gets a lot of his points from transition and quick, decisive moves to the basket. He's not the type that will really disrupt a team's flow, so he'd probably integrate with a team like the 90's Magic just fine. LeBron is a team player who's looking to dish often, and I don't see why he wouldn't be willing to defer to the young and robust Shaq Diesel if he had him on his squad. Can you image those two charging down the court for a 2-on-1 fastbreak with the defender not knowing who was going to bring the thunder? Having O'Neal out there on the floor with him would free up a lot of the defensive attention he's been getting in Cleveland, so a few of his attributes may actually improve (shooting, for one). The way I see it... you take LeBron and put him in Old School Penny's place back then, you'd have a scary squad. You take Old School Penny and put him in LeBron's place today, and I don't think you see Cleveland having the success they've been having today. __________________ b 2007-08 NBA Most Valuable Player c Kobe Brahant #24 \| G Selected in the first round (13th pick overall) of the 1996 NBA Draft Height: 6-6 / 1,98 Weight: 220 lbs / 99,8 kg High School: Lower Mantra HS (Panchkula, India) 卍卍卍 [ 卍卍卍

07-21-2008, 01:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
The Franchise Laffin at em... Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: where they speaky no english Posts: 962	Lebron is a team player without a team... watch allstar game footage... hell watch the upcoming Olympics... dude has no problem taking a back seat... but who on clevelands roster can he take a backseat to? Szerbiak? __________________ Got a Magnum... in a Magnum...

07-21-2008, 08:46 PM	#16 (permalink)
K-Skills Mr.Skills Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: New Jeru Posts: 21,860	damn Penny was ill back in the day.

07-22-2008, 01:05 AM	#17 (permalink)
CaTchW0n thats not wavy Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Las Vegas, Craptable Posts: 1,420	1:02, 2:03 is greatness. Without Microfracture knee surgery I think we're talking Penny top 5 guard of all time. Points and Shooting guards. __________________ THEY KEEP THINKING IM AMATEUR, THATS WHY I GIVE EM THE FINGER LIKE IM GETTING A MANICURE....