Mixed feelings about Barry Bonds...

Porno_Lady · 07-13-2007, 03:45 AM

he's getting close to break Hank Aaron's record...

but the cloud is hanging over him about this whole BALCO situation. One part of me is saying, well, ya know McGwire, Sosa, Giambi, etc used steroids or other performance enhancing drugs, but then another part of me is saying, a lot of athletes used steroids and still dont' put up similar numbers. At some point, talent has to play a major part in it, it's not like steroids automatically make you MVP. But then again, I wonder how many homers Babe Ruth, Reggie Jackson, or Hank would have hit if they were on steroids. Some argue the pitchers were worse back then and the ball was heavier, but I would say the training is better in modern day.

Do you think they should celebrate he record breaking homer? Anyone want him to break it? Where does he rank as far as players ever you think?

*some females actually do like sports as much as guys

I wArFaRe I · 07-13-2007, 09:52 AM

they should celebrate..theres still no proof he did any wrongdoing (not that I don't think he didn't) but until then, its all speculation. And like whats been said many times before, tons and tons of players were or are on steroids and you dont see them putting up the numbers bonds does..you can be the strongest guy, but still have to hit the baseball near perfect all those times. They didn't have all the scouting reports etc on the players back then, don't know if that contributed but they should def celebrate, hes been a great.

Nam Dekan · 07-13-2007, 01:04 PM

Pitchers worse during the era of Aaron? He was around during the segment of years which seen a sharp offensive decline and known as the pitchers era. His era had a lot of greats; Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Juan Mariachal, Whitey Ford, Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, Denny McClain, Warren Spahn, Fergie Jenkins, Catfish Hunter, Gaylord Perry, Jim Palmer, Phil Neikro, Nolan Ryan Jim Bunning and Jim Kaat. I think when 1920 rolled around the pitchers were trying to get used to the changes in baseball and were at a disadvantage and Ruth was able to take full advantage of it. It's hard to recall many dominant pitchers from the 20's whom werent at the tail end of their career (Johnson, Alexander).

I think the pitching now is worse though and that helps hitters. What is there now 32 teams with 5 man rotations. The pitching talent is just thinned out, and also the smaller ball parks..

I think Bonds is one of the all time greats though. Even before he was suspected of using, he was already putting together a great career. I don't hate anybody for using when they were legal especially when MLB ignored it and let it go. Now if he was using after they were illegal then that's different.

I still don't think McGwire belongs in the Hall though. Sure he has a lot of home runs, but that's all he has. His numbers aren't impressive across the board.

Old Soul · 07-13-2007, 01:07 PM

I honestly don't give a fuck what he did. If everyone was on them, he still proved he was ahead of his field putting up OPS' nobody could ever fuckin dream of.

He's among the 5 greatest hitters without the juice and by far the greatest ever when he's on it.

Iceodu921 · 07-13-2007, 05:59 PM

Ah i disagree with 5 greatest without the juice but other than that your right on..

Idk why steroids is sucha issue...

Even pitchers in this era are on it.

Honestly the reason why the media bashes bonds is cause hes a dick to them. Steroids is way down the list imo.

Old Soul · 07-13-2007, 06:15 PM

Depends when the juicing started, but it is debatable.

Even in 92, he put up 310/450/625, which is phenomenal. He was becoming one of the greats regardless.

Iceodu921 · 07-13-2007, 07:12 PM

ya definte hall of famer..

Because of the roids i cant call him the GOAT but hes dam sure up there.

Ethan Albright · 07-13-2007, 07:44 PM

Yep. All athletes do some sort of steroid or borderline steroid......so what makes Bonds different?

He could hit the ball, and that's the ONLY thing that people go to baseball games to see. He helped baseball. He's great. End of story.

Homicidal Thoughtz · 07-14-2007, 02:55 AM

i love bonds... too many players in that era are questionable.. if they had actual solid proof then its a diffrent story..hes just the scape goat for mlb to take all the heat off the other 500 players that juiced

psunit · 07-14-2007, 09:33 AM

Before he was allegedly taking steroids, he already won a couple MVP awards and putting out great numbers. Don't get me wrong, I hate the guy. Well I am biased Pirates fan, I will admit that. He is a great player regardless of the steroids. I used to care if he broke the HR record, but I learn to let it go and enjoy the home runs. Besides, it will probably be broken again in the future.

iLL Rich · 07-14-2007, 09:26 PM

yeah i feel u. him using steroids kinds of taints it because willie mays, hank arron, and babe ruth didnt. steroids are an unfair advantage. and sammy and mark mcgwire dont get the heat barry does because they weren't going to be #1 all time in home runs, barry is, thats why its a problem. i hate seeing this guy pass hank's record when it's fairly obvious barry wouldn't have even caught babe ruth withoud the roids. the guy is 42 years old. without the roids, he'd be a sub-30hr/year guy since he was in his mid-late 30's. that's what steroids gives him. he's having his prime career when most power hitters slow down. without steroids, he'd be manny rameriez. i'm just looking forward to ken griffey or a-rod passing him so we can end this discussion. he is a great player though but he's still a cheater

Iceodu921 · 07-15-2007, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iLL Rich

yeah i feel u. him using steroids kinds of taints it because willie mays, hank arron, and babe ruth didnt. steroids are an unfair advantage. and sammy and mark mcgwire dont get the heat barry does because they weren't going to be #1 all time in home runs, barry is, thats why its a problem. i hate seeing this guy pass hank's record when it's fairly obvious barry wouldn't have even caught babe ruth withoud the roids. the guy is 42 years old. without the roids, he'd be a sub-30hr/year guy since he was in his mid-late 30's. that's what steroids gives him. he's having his prime career when most power hitters slow down. without steroids, he'd be manny rameriez. i'm just looking forward to ken griffey or a-rod passing him so we can end this discussion. he is a great player though but he's still a cheater

I disagree with that. Because no1 gave Sammy and Mark heat going after the single season record. That may not be as big but its dam close. Really most of this hate for him is caused by the fact that hes a dick to the media.

Nam Dekan · 07-15-2007, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iLL Rich

yeah i feel u. him using steroids kinds of taints it because willie mays, hank arron, and babe ruth didnt. steroids are an unfair advantage. and sammy and mark mcgwire dont get the heat barry does because they weren't going to be #1 all time in home runs, barry is, thats why its a problem. i hate seeing this guy pass hank's record when it's fairly obvious barry wouldn't have even caught babe ruth withoud the roids. the guy is 42 years old. without the roids, he'd be a sub-30hr/year guy since he was in his mid-late 30's. that's what steroids gives him. he's having his prime career when most power hitters slow down. without steroids, he'd be manny rameriez. i'm just looking forward to ken griffey or a-rod passing him so we can end this discussion. he is a great player though but he's still a cheater

Griffey is never passing him. He is nearly 40 and isn't even at 600. McGwire didn't get a lot of the heat because he got out of baseball, but did damage to his legacy at the congressinal hearings. Sure steroids may taint it but MLB didn't make it ilegal until 2002. Selig basically ignored the problem. Baseball though has always been about cheating, always about trying to gain that upper hand. Bonds takes a lot of shit because he is a dick to the media. Far as I know Sosa has usually been a nice guy for the most part but did make himself look bad at the hearings by convienantly forgetting how to speak english.

psunit · 07-15-2007, 11:00 AM

I wish Griffey stayed healthy. The nation would be a lot more excited if he was threatening to break the home run record than Bonds. It definately would be more entertaining. Not too many people hate Griffey. Hell he was crazily cheered for in Seattle a few weeks ago. That was great too see.

iLL Rich · 07-15-2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nam Dekan

Griffey is never passing him. He is nearly 40 and isn't even at 600. McGwire didn't get a lot of the heat because he got out of baseball, but did damage to his legacy at the congressinal hearings. Sure steroids may taint it but MLB didn't make it ilegal until 2002. Selig basically ignored the problem. Baseball though has always been about cheating, always about trying to gain that upper hand. Bonds takes a lot of shit because he is a dick to the media. Far as I know Sosa has usually been a nice guy for the most part but did make himself look bad at the hearings by convienantly forgetting how to speak english.

griffey is 38 and he should get to 600 this year. i think he's at 586. he has a shot to hit 700+. and anyways i think it taints it because baseball is about records moreso than any other sport. and plus, the stats are fairer. baseball is a team sport, but there's no excuses for your plate appearances. you dont have to share ball time with other stars like in football or basketball. you can have an all star team lineup and all could have 50+hr seasons, 140rbi+. put 5 guys who avg 25ppg in the nba on the same team and all of their numbers will drop. steroids just makes it unfair. like i said before my position is without steroids barry bonds wouldnt have even beaten willie mays, and he definately wouldnt have had a 73hr season.

WaxonWaxoff · 07-15-2007, 03:29 PM

Alex Rodriguez is gonna break Barry Bond's record in a few years anyways.

Old Soul · 07-15-2007, 03:56 PM

Arod's gonna break his record around the time he gets his 3000th hit.

07-13-2007, 03:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
Porno_Lady Educated and Beautiful Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Broad and Market Posts: 695	Mixed feelings about Barry Bonds... he's getting close to break Hank Aaron's record... but the cloud is hanging over him about this whole BALCO situation. One part of me is saying, well, ya know McGwire, Sosa, Giambi, etc used steroids or other performance enhancing drugs, but then another part of me is saying, a lot of athletes used steroids and still dont' put up similar numbers. At some point, talent has to play a major part in it, it's not like steroids automatically make you MVP. But then again, I wonder how many homers Babe Ruth, Reggie Jackson, or Hank would have hit if they were on steroids. Some argue the pitchers were worse back then and the ball was heavier, but I would say the training is better in modern day. Do you think they should celebrate he record breaking homer? Anyone want him to break it? Where does he rank as far as players ever you think? *some females actually do like sports as much as guys __________________ One Solemn Promise P A R E N T A L A D V I S O R Y Pornographic Content

07-13-2007, 01:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nam Dekan i got a tip in my pocket Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Home Depot Posts: 58,201	Pitchers worse during the era of Aaron? He was around during the segment of years which seen a sharp offensive decline and known as the pitchers era. His era had a lot of greats; Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Juan Mariachal, Whitey Ford, Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, Denny McClain, Warren Spahn, Fergie Jenkins, Catfish Hunter, Gaylord Perry, Jim Palmer, Phil Neikro, Nolan Ryan Jim Bunning and Jim Kaat. I think when 1920 rolled around the pitchers were trying to get used to the changes in baseball and were at a disadvantage and Ruth was able to take full advantage of it. It's hard to recall many dominant pitchers from the 20's whom werent at the tail end of their career (Johnson, Alexander). I think the pitching now is worse though and that helps hitters. What is there now 32 teams with 5 man rotations. The pitching talent is just thinned out, and also the smaller ball parks.. I think Bonds is one of the all time greats though. Even before he was suspected of using, he was already putting together a great career. I don't hate anybody for using when they were legal especially when MLB ignored it and let it go. Now if he was using after they were illegal then that's different. I still don't think McGwire belongs in the Hall though. Sure he has a lot of home runs, but that's all he has. His numbers aren't impressive across the board. __________________ Juggs n Ruggs, we'll fuck up your mugs! Strip Club Dreams "Let me tell you something, sister, you serve two purposes in this house - you can give me a blow job or make me a sandwich. I'm not in the mood for head and I had a late breakfast, so you're shit out of luck. "-Tommy Gavin from Rescue Me

07-13-2007, 01:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
Old Soul Nipple Nibbler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: I'll stay below the surface, breaking bread with worms. It's depravity, not gravity, that anchors flesh to Earth......... Los Angeles, CA Posts: 27,037	I honestly don't give a fuck what he did. If everyone was on them, he still proved he was ahead of his field putting up OPS' nobody could ever fuckin dream of. He's among the 5 greatest hitters without the juice and by far the greatest ever when he's on it. __________________ The venom is inside of me, the reason Greece is fallin to pieces The whole world's callin for Jesus And I'll let him take a strike or three Then crush his skull with a tree from the Garden of Eden I know he has a high threshold for pain So I'll tie him to a bull's tail and drag his flesh over Spain An equisite work of art I'll drop his head at the Louvre I'm impossible to stop once I get in a groove

07-13-2007, 06:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
Old Soul Nipple Nibbler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: I'll stay below the surface, breaking bread with worms. It's depravity, not gravity, that anchors flesh to Earth......... Los Angeles, CA Posts: 27,037	Depends when the juicing started, but it is debatable. Even in 92, he put up 310/450/625, which is phenomenal. He was becoming one of the greats regardless. __________________ The venom is inside of me, the reason Greece is fallin to pieces The whole world's callin for Jesus And I'll let him take a strike or three Then crush his skull with a tree from the Garden of Eden I know he has a high threshold for pain So I'll tie him to a bull's tail and drag his flesh over Spain An equisite work of art I'll drop his head at the Louvre I'm impossible to stop once I get in a groove

07-13-2007, 07:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ethan Albright Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,327	Yep. All athletes do some sort of steroid or borderline steroid......so what makes Bonds different? He could hit the ball, and that's the ONLY thing that people go to baseball games to see. He helped baseball. He's great. End of story. __________________ Michigan = Out. but... Georgia Tech is still kicking. Go Buzz.

07-13-2007, 09:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
I wArFaRe I Love 2 Hate Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: ct Posts: 2,209	they should celebrate..theres still no proof he did any wrongdoing (not that I don't think he didn't) but until then, its all speculation. And like whats been said many times before, tons and tons of players were or are on steroids and you dont see them putting up the numbers bonds does..you can be the strongest guy, but still have to hit the baseball near perfect all those times. They didn't have all the scouting reports etc on the players back then, don't know if that contributed but they should def celebrate, hes been a great.

07-13-2007, 05:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
Iceodu921 Resident Sports Genius Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: wit ur girl Posts: 6,284	Ah i disagree with 5 greatest without the juice but other than that your right on.. Idk why steroids is sucha issue... Even pitchers in this era are on it. Honestly the reason why the media bashes bonds is cause hes a dick to them. Steroids is way down the list imo.

07-13-2007, 07:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
Iceodu921 Resident Sports Genius Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: wit ur girl Posts: 6,284	ya definte hall of famer.. Because of the roids i cant call him the GOAT but hes dam sure up there.

07-14-2007, 02:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
Homicidal Thoughtz Booga Rapswell Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 6,839	i love bonds... too many players in that era are questionable.. if they had actual solid proof then its a diffrent story..hes just the scape goat for mlb to take all the heat off the other 500 players that juiced __________________ www.myspace.com/boogarapswell www.soundclick.com/homicidalthoughtz

07-14-2007, 09:33 AM	#10 (permalink)
psunit Hail to the Lions Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Middle of Nowhere, PA Posts: 2,392	Before he was allegedly taking steroids, he already won a couple MVP awards and putting out great numbers. Don't get me wrong, I hate the guy. Well I am biased Pirates fan, I will admit that. He is a great player regardless of the steroids. I used to care if he broke the HR record, but I learn to let it go and enjoy the home runs. Besides, it will probably be broken again in the future.

07-14-2007, 09:26 PM	#11 (permalink)
iLL Rich ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 42,675	yeah i feel u. him using steroids kinds of taints it because willie mays, hank arron, and babe ruth didnt. steroids are an unfair advantage. and sammy and mark mcgwire dont get the heat barry does because they weren't going to be #1 all time in home runs, barry is, thats why its a problem. i hate seeing this guy pass hank's record when it's fairly obvious barry wouldn't have even caught babe ruth withoud the roids. the guy is 42 years old. without the roids, he'd be a sub-30hr/year guy since he was in his mid-late 30's. that's what steroids gives him. he's having his prime career when most power hitters slow down. without steroids, he'd be manny rameriez. i'm just looking forward to ken griffey or a-rod passing him so we can end this discussion. he is a great player though but he's still a cheater

07-15-2007, 11:00 AM	#14 (permalink)
psunit Hail to the Lions Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Middle of Nowhere, PA Posts: 2,392	I wish Griffey stayed healthy. The nation would be a lot more excited if he was threatening to break the home run record than Bonds. It definately would be more entertaining. Not too many people hate Griffey. Hell he was crazily cheered for in Seattle a few weeks ago. That was great too see.

07-15-2007, 03:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
WaxonWaxoff Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,640	Alex Rodriguez is gonna break Barry Bond's record in a few years anyways.

07-15-2007, 03:56 PM	#17 (permalink)
Old Soul Nipple Nibbler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: I'll stay below the surface, breaking bread with worms. It's depravity, not gravity, that anchors flesh to Earth......... Los Angeles, CA Posts: 27,037	Arod's gonna break his record around the time he gets his 3000th hit. __________________ The venom is inside of me, the reason Greece is fallin to pieces The whole world's callin for Jesus And I'll let him take a strike or three Then crush his skull with a tree from the Garden of Eden I know he has a high threshold for pain So I'll tie him to a bull's tail and drag his flesh over Spain An equisite work of art I'll drop his head at the Louvre I'm impossible to stop once I get in a groove