The Truth About Cats and Dogs

[Xero Satsujin]

The funniest thing I've noticed is that there are a ton of arguements going on about what poetry is and what not. I have a question though for those who are always arguing back and forth with one another. Is it

1)self expression
2)impress the world around you
3)betterment of self
4)growth


What do you think it is? What do you feel it is? I read a quote posted by anaphora, and I am sad to say that I actually agreed with him for once, lol. but, not on it applying to those on this site, but merely the idea behind the quote. But yea, go over this, and let me and others know what you all think. Perhaps maybe we can finally put an end to the useless arguing...if not, then argue on...

Originally Posted by Anaphora

Just came across it on the University of Iowa's website.

The bad writer believes that sincerity of feeling will be enough, and pins her faith on the power of experience.

-Jeanette Winterson, highly acclaimed author of Written on the Body among many others.


Yeah. Very applicable here.

that's the quote by the way...

Originally Posted by Anaphora

Hahaha... by saying that its just one person's opinion would be incorrect though. It is virtually every teacher, and serious writer's opinion... ask them. Malo, see, what you're describing isn't bad writing... because it is using literary tools, and not just relying on the emotion. You can have the strongest emotion in the world, and write a limerick about it, and it will not convey itself into words.

I'm not sure if you people don't understand the quote, or are in denial about why people study the written word, as opposed to just writing it. All great writers have been great readers. Example: Jose Saramago, nobel prize laureate, author of 5 best selling books: great reader. •••el: not so great reader. But that's all digression from my point.

What Ms. Winterson is saying isn't that emotion doesn't belong in a piece of writing, much on the contrary. She's saying it can't be alone. Without good word choice and literary devices, the writing will be bad. Which is not saying "Only those who have an MFA from a big time school can write well," or anything about education, or even writing style. Its simply saying that chickens feel emotions, but if you set one at a typewriter and let it peck away, it won't be good writing. The same goes with a human. If they don't grasp the language, or the uses of the language very well, it will be hard for them to write a great piece... By saying that's not true, you're just showing your true colors, which mark you as either children who don't want to accept that learning is the key to better writing, or idiots... I'm sure the former is usually the case.

that's what I partially agreed with...

[allnakey]

Ooooooooooh geez

[Surreal The A.D. Prophet]

and the point of the post was???

i just mean that you say you partly agree...but do not specify....

this type of non-argument irritates me..so i am not going to be tact about it...SAY SOMETHING.

:-)

have a nice day

[Xero Satsujin]

It was just a question, and I didn't post it up here anyway.

[Mind~$oul]

Just saying something xero, knowing damn well you would have said something any other time lol. You DID post this thread, u just didnt sticky it.

[Thaumaturge]

I agree, to an extent, i hate people who just post some 5 year old vocab, with nothing deep in it, and everything on the surface, meaning there's no hidden meanings or metaphors or anything within the poem, everything is jus layed out with no complexity.
And then they write about something like their cat dying or family member being sick, and expect it to get great reviews just because of that. Poetry isn't meant for people who can't articulate their thoughts good, some argue its expression of emotion, but when you can't express what you're feeling in a good literary manner, then keep it to yourself and don't make others read it, cus when i come across poems like that, its just like hearing some retard tell a story, i have to clap so i don't hurt their feelings, but it really bothers me.

That's about the best definition i can sum it up with for the time being. But really, i'd like to hear others thoughts, Cus I believe poetry is mainly to be spoken and displayed by the intellectuals who take time to perfect their poems, and left to be written and kept to one's self for those that do it as a hobby and just write down a plain message without elucidation or intricacy because it makes them feel better.

it's amazing sometimes watching def poetry jam and seeing the idiocism of some of these people with no vocab or ability to present thoughts in an elaborate manner.

[Xero Satsujin]

Originally Posted by Mind~$oul

Just saying something xero, knowing damn well you would have said something any other time lol. You DID post this thread, u just didnt sticky it.

Yea, I've been working hard as hell lately tryin to get this car and pay my rent. But, it's all good. Yea, I posted it, but I didn't sticky it. I don't know why it got sticky'd in the first place cause it aint that serious. Was just curious about what's what ya know?

THe only reason that I posted it is because I teach and that I see what he pointed out. When we're teaching the kids how to write, we're teaching what is needed, what is used, what's space, what's filler, and also literary devices. There are many techniques that we go over and go through to help improve the vocabulary and usage of words.

Note, in this process, we are teaching essay writing and formatting. NOT POETRY. Personally, I believe that poetry is sorta like love. Something that we all have a concept of that is our own. Sure we share ideas on it, but we don't really all totally agree with each others concepts of it. Though love an emtotion, poetry is it's medium...I am at work right now though, so I gotta get back to my class...

[Sole Sovereign]

You can't use a tool if you are ignorant of its design. There are writers who have every bit of literary capability you could fathom up, but no real life experiences to convey with it. So when they write a poem it's not real. Not that all poetry has to be real, but relation is definitely a key aspect in reader approval. You wouldn't be able to truly define poetry, anymore than you could any other art form or medium of expression; it all derives from the motive. What made that particular writer pick up that tool? These arguments normally spawn from envy, either an artist with no drive but all the technique hating on somebody who has lived life, or vice versa. To be a Professional Poet you got to sell, and to sell you are going to have a target audience, and no matter how quick you are with a simile or a metaphor they have to relate to your work, otherwise you won't sell. These are my thoughts on the subject.