The thing that was lost in the controversy of the decision

[OurSin]

Originally Posted by Fag Sabbitch

lay and pray is no worse than boxers who make a living outpointing competition and winning via decisions.

wtf? If they are outpointing, they are out boxing....

lol @ comparing good boxing to lay and pray

smfh.....

i love a good techincal match...sure Knockouts are fun, but i actually enjoy boxers who have skill rather than just power

[.:Pain:.]

MMA is not and probably never will be a sport that is known as a "sweet science". I've read the debate in the previous post, and I think there are some points that are being left unsaid. Boxing is considered the sweet science because of how precise and deliberate that each participant has to be just to set up shots. There may be anywhere from 3-8 factors that goes into setting up a straight cross. Boxing matches are similar to chess matches. One guy will have one thing working, the other guy will adjust, and then fighter A will have to figure something else out, all throughout the course of a fight. With MMA, if you guys are honest, this is a rarity. MMA is mainly a jack of all trades, master of none type of thing. The way the rules are set up, it favors whoever is the better/stronger grappler. In order for MMA to be a sweet science, in my opinion, what you would have to see is a situation where either two guys have the same strength and attempt to fight with that strength, or two fighters are essentially even everywhere. When you have two high level grapplers, you normally see guys just concede that the other guy is his equal and we see 3-5 rounds of sloppy wild haymakers. We rarely see a fight where two fighters can win no matter where the fight goes.

Ok, we agree here. But I was specifically noting the Rua Machida match, and none others. I said this is the perfect example of why MMA can be just as much of a sweet science, not why MMA is as much of a sweet science.

I don't think we're there yet, but like you said, with a few rule tweaks and some more progression, it can achieve that end.

I think you just misinterpreted what I said, lol, because I completely agree with pretty much everything you said...

[Fag Sabbitch]

Originally Posted by SeeSon

The two aren't comparable. When a boxer outpoints another boxer, they are both on their feet and neither fighter is in a disadvantageous position. With Lay n Pray, even if its BJJ standards, being on the bottom is a disadvantageous position.

The guy being outpointed is in a disadvantageous position.

Besides, the two are comparable because in boxing, just like lay n pray, the fighter should aim to finish opponents rather than stick and move every round.

The main point though was that both are incredibly boring.

[Fag Sabbitch]

Originally Posted by OurSin

wtf? If they are outpointing, they are out boxing....

lol @ comparing good boxing to lay and pray

If they are laying and praying, they are outgrappling.

lol @ not realizing lay and pray is effective wrestling just like stick and move is effective boxing.

See? there's zero difference. zero.

[Fag Sabbitch]

Originally Posted by SeeSon

Sure.

MMA is not and probably never will be a sport that is known as a "sweet science". I've read the debate in the previous post, and I think there are some points that are being left unsaid. Boxing is considered the sweet science because of how precise and deliberate that each participant has to be just to set up shots. There may be anywhere from 3-8 factors that goes into setting up a straight cross. Boxing matches are similar to chess matches. One guy will have one thing working, the other guy will adjust, and then fighter A will have to figure something else out, all throughout the course of a fight. With MMA, if you guys are honest, this is a rarity. MMA is mainly a jack of all trades, master of none type of thing. The way the rules are set up, it favors whoever is the better/stronger grappler. In order for MMA to be a sweet science, in my opinion, what you would have to see is a situation where either two guys have the same strength and attempt to fight with that strength, or two fighters are essentially even everywhere. When you have two high level grapplers, you normally see guys just concede that the other guy is his equal and we see 3-5 rounds of sloppy wild haymakers. We rarely see a fight where two fighters can win no matter where the fight goes.

The script for an MMA fight is usually, the guy with the grappling advantage takes the other guy down and then either finishes him or wins a decision. Too many guys have holes and we normally see match ups where the entire strategy is to just get the fight where you want it to go. With a cage and rules it makes it harder to defend the takedown, for those that will ignorantly say, its the weaker grapplers job to stuff the takedown. When a fighter can simply go for a takedown when a fight isn't going well, that in and of itself, prohibits the sport from ever being a true science. That's not a sweet science, that's common sense. Fighters never have to figure it out, they will simply clinch, pull guard, shoot for the takedown. The boxing equivalent would be if Ricky Hatton types were allowed to just clinch for the duration of the round and never had to break. If boxing were like that, it would cease to be a sweet science and would just be a strength/power type of sport.

You kinda miss the point over splitting hairs, though, Yes, you're right on a lot of levels. But what you said essentially was that boxing is a sweet science because of the variables involved. MMA is the same, but there are more variables so you'll rarely see two evenly matched opponents. Takedowns aren't easy, it's just that guys that have wrestled for years make them look like that. You have to fuck with the focus of your opponent, close the distance, and explode into a shoot.

Shit, look at the randleman-cro cop knockout. It was a fake shoot that made cro cop drop his defense enough to get ktfo'd. And this is one-dimensional randleman we're talking about. Seems pretty sweet to me.

As for the evenly matched remarks, it's really rare to see a boxing match between two evenly matched guys. It's almost always one guy dominating the other from the get go. Let's face it... in boxing, a lot of times it's a person's speed, agility, and power that make the difference rather than pure technique.

You can't really call MMA less of a sweet science simply because there are more variables, and thus, less kings of all trades. If anything, it makes boxing checkers and mma chess.