Mondragon

[JonathanRex]

http://www.justpeace.org/mondragon.htm




What are your thoughts on this?
Good idea?
Not a good idea?
America will never embrace this (atleast not during our lifetime with all the idiots out there) but it would be interesting since the concept of "Liberty" in the United States is supposed to be based off limiting the power of the elite over the masses.
(Which obviously isn't happening)

Take for example: In the 50's there was approximately 500 Car Companies in the United States alone. Now there's 2 that are based solely out of the United States.
Why? Big business buying out or forcing out little businesses.

There used to be mom and pop shops everywhere, in every small town and city. Now all the fast food chains have all but eliminated them.

There used to be local shops that sold clothes and others that sold toiletries and another that sold this or that, etc. Now there is a Wal-Mart or a K-Mart in every town and city which has done away with those businesses.

What does it mean to have Liberty in this country?
Really? You're free to go to college where you can get a job where another man will tell you what to do while somebody else tells him what to do (all of you working for the corperation where a man makes one 5 second decision and makes more money than all of you will in a 20 year time span).

You go to school K-12 where you are brainwashed and conditioned into believing that America is the greatest country in the world because it is free. You're taught equality, justice, and liberty (but you never see it put into practice) and they NEVER teach you about Communism, Socialism or anything about Marx. Why? Because that's evil!!!! They are evil Communists! "What do they believe in?" "Don't ask that question, they're evil!! You don't wanna know!" "And the Muslims, what do they believe?" "They believe that women are less than men and that they have to cover their faces because they're treated like dogs. They're evil too!" "But it says here that to be a Muslim you simply have to accept that Allah (God) is One and Mohammed was a Prophet!" "That's what they claim but they also believe in Jihad and blowing up buildings!"

See a pattern?
Or am I the only one.
What the fuck does Liberty mean here?

Hell, here's a legitimate website that you can read for yourself:
http://www.demos.org/inequality/facts.cfm

[menaz]

You're a little confused again. America is about freedom... See what america teaches through kindregraden to 12 grade is the basics of america history which includes russia, china, japan..etc.. all come up in highschool history text books. I don't know about you, but I was taught Russia's communism in highschool and my history book never said anything bad about it... It simplely told its history nothing else. Moreover, if you wish you can go to college and study further all these subjects you and I mentioned...from Communism...to Islam... whatever you wish your major and minor to be so shall it be. Nobody has hidden anything from you...Infact, It's all in plain sight everyday on the internet, in the book stores... Or in your college and government paid highschool text-books. You probably didn't go to school much, or took easy classes, or dropped out early which is why you don't know these things. I remember my history book from highschool taught me that america's number system and advance equations came from the egyptians and the Arabs ... Most the arabs were persian not muslism though. Of course our schools don't teach us muslism theology that would contradict seperation of church and state. FYI- YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE... IT IS YOUR CHOICE... AND IF SOME PROFESSOR IS MAKING UP YOUR MIND FOR YOU, WELL THAN YOU NEVER HAD A MIND TO BEGIN WITH. You should know exactly why you want the degree you're going for in college, If you do not know and are simplely only going to college to appease other people than you're only hurting your own future... But don't start pointing the finger at someone else becuase you can't deal with the real world of adult choices and decisions. YOU CAN BE WHATEVER YOU SET YOUR MIND TOO... BUT IF YOU CAN NOT SET YOUR MIND TOO IT THAN YOU HAVE ALREADY FAILED YOURSELF!


Yes, Mom and pop shops either sold out to eminent domain, or sold their family owned companies to big corporations which started chain franchises like walmart. Its a matter of economic growth in supply and demand which caused this evolution in business ethics. But I would suggest more elite business men like Donald Trump start paying much more attention to the average citizen than to his rich clientele. I'm a very liberal thinker when it comes to economics... So I would also like to suggest that contracting engineer companies stop utilizing cheap materalizes to build their buildings like they did with the WTC...And Instead I propose that these companies keep on evolving their new materials to each new building they make in the future.

[JonathanRex]

I took you off ignore since you are the only one who has taken the time to respond to this and was disappointed to see that once again you are spreading made up claims. It gets so tiring reading your bullshit, Menaz.

1. I went to Military school around the world until 7th Grade, 7th Grade I had to go to a private school in Southern California, 8-9th Grade I went to a public school in Southern California and then 10th and 11th I went to a high school in Indiana and had enough credits to graduate early because I was also taking classes at night and on weekends.
NONE of those schools taught anything other than Capitalism and Democracy. I don't know what school you went to but that is NOT the norm to teach from an unbiased view. Stop lying to yourself and others. It simply isn't. Not many people can view life without bias.

2. America CLAIMS to be about Liberty (Freedom) but the FREEDOM and LIBERTY that was saught after when forming this nation was Religious and Political Freedom for the White Protestants. It was a pseudo-freedom and a pseudo-liberty for anyone who wanted to accept THEIR ways. This nation is FAR from free. The people talk about being free and whatever but there is no TRUE freedom here. The filthy rich continue to get filthy fucking rich and everybody else is subservient to them, while also conditioned to uphold their Capitalistic society. Look at the numbers. Then look beyond the numbers. I'm not going to go too deep into it because that is the book I'm writing now and I'm not wasting my time posting it. When I finish the book, you can read it. If you don't want to read it, whatever.
1% of the U.S. population control over 40% of the U.S. Market. There is something seriously VERY wrong with the idea that 1% of the population can control nearly half of the population directly and the other half indirectly. That is NOT freedom. Much of the United States Government is made up of Men who are invested in these major corperations either directly or indirectly. That is a conflict of interest and a blatant violation of the system which was being saught after. There is no longer a King and Court, only because the titles and labels given to them have changed. They still exist, just as Rome does. They have just taken on a different form.

3. Yes, the information is available but you have to look really hard for it. You have to have a questioning mind as well because 12 years of "Capitalism" conditioning is the same as 20 years of Religious conditioning. You must not only read other books but you must be able to find and read the CORRECT books. Not only that, you must also be able to think from an unbiased perspective and take in the information without associating your already pre-conditioned beliefs and views and almost NOBODY can do that.

4. My wife and I are BOTH in college, BOTH paying for it and BOTH set on our majors. So why you are referring to that, I do not know. Stick to the subject and stop sidetracking every goddamn thread. Your propaganda tactics are evident. It wont work much longer. People are catching on. You're going to have to actually know and speak the truth very soon.

[menaz]

I took you off ignore since you are the only one who has taken the time to respond to this and was disappointed to see that once again you are spreading made up claims. It gets so tiring reading your bullshit, Menaz.

I'm not lying!

1. I went to Military school around the world until 7th Grade, 7th Grade I had to go to a private school in Southern California, 8-9th Grade I went to a public school in Southern California and then 10th and 11th I went to a high school in Indiana and had enough credits to graduate early because I was also taking classes at night and on weekends. NONE of those schools taught anything other than Capitalism and Democracy. I don't know what school you went to but that is NOT the norm to teach from an unbiased view. Stop lying to yourself and others. It simply isn't. Not many people can view life without bias.

First off, your whole reply was a LIE. Second off, I'm not lying about how I was educated unlike you. Which is why unlike you I don't go around fabercating history or demonizing others. If Those were indeed your educational routes... Your enviroments were not good ones. Private school, Military school, India? India was nothing to do with the way america educates. What you mean Those schools taught nothing, but capitalism and democracy? WTF that doesn't even make sense. Think about that for a second... Do you even know what capitalism is? Do you even know what democracy is? I don't think you fully understand it. I guess GYM, SCIENCES, ENGLISH, LATIN... Wasn't on the curriculum at your schools? Just capitalism and democracy right? Democracy anit no 101 class I ever heard of... I've heard of DEMOCRACY CLASS and HISORY CLASSES though. Please, LMAO! WOW! I should stop reading here, but ninnyhammers are my guilty pleasures.

2. America CLAIMS to be about Liberty (Freedom) but the FREEDOM and LIBERTY that was saught after when forming this nation was Religious and Political Freedom for the White Protestants. It was a pseudo-freedom and a pseudo-liberty for anyone who wanted to accept THEIR ways. This nation is FAR from free. The people talk about being free and whatever but there is no TRUE freedom here. The filthy rich continue to get filthy fucking rich and everybody else is subservient to them, while also conditioned to uphold their Capitalistic society. Look at the numbers. Then look beyond the numbers. I'm not going to go too deep into it because that is the book I'm writing now and I'm not wasting my time posting it. When I finish the book, you can read it. If you don't want to read it, whatever.

One suggestive question. How come you can never answer what I speak on? you always red herring the conversation with your hate jargon which isn't even true by the way.

No see, actually the nation wasn't based on religion that is why america has seperation of church and state, People were religious not the nations democracy. The four fathers were not religious at all, Though they did respect others religious beliefs. If liberity was Pseudo... blacks would not have their RIGHTS today, America would still be a autocracy under england Kings... and Muslism would not be able to set-up mosques in new-york as well as in other places in america... Liberty is real, Freedom is real. How does the rich get wealthy? Again you are blaming other people for your poor problems( this isn't 1959 anymore)... STOP IT! You think eminem started out RICH? You are the biggest EMO with a bag full of excuses. Suppose your book is real? Noone will read your book, But IF they do by some chance scholars will tare you apart for what you really are and for what I've been saying along... A Pseudo-intellectual with a hatred for America. Just a suggestion You better label that book FICTION!

1% of the U.S. population control over 40% of the U.S. Market. There is something seriously VERY wrong with the idea that 1% of the population can control nearly half of the population directly and the other half indirectly. That is NOT freedom. Much of the United States Government is made up of Men who are invested in these major corperations either directly or indirectly. That is a conflict of interest and a blatant violation of the system which was being saught after. There is no longer a King and Court, only because the titles and labels given to them have changed. They still exist, just as Rome does. They have just taken on a different form.

Wrong, see what you miss is the facts... Polictians, adminastrations terms all END. That is what you fail to understand. That is not like the Roman emperor who's Throne is held until he dies and then passes on to his sons. Now, Your fallacy is to escape-goat by trying to make the rome-to-america analogy... when the reality actually is America-to-rome is analogous.

3. Yes, the information is available but you have to look really hard for it. You have to have a questioning mind as well because 12 years of "Capitalism" conditioning is the same as 20 years of Religious conditioning. You must not only read other books but you must be able to find and read the CORRECT books. Not only that, you must also be able to think from an unbiased perspective and take in the information without associating your already pre-conditioned beliefs and views and almost NOBODY can do that.

Not really actually is is quite easy to find, Which means even finding makes america a liberal and free nation. But, In your case any conspiracry web site and Neo-liberal blog will do. You didn't pay attention in school... Either that or you didn't take the elevated classes of History, english, latin, science, Math instead you choose to just learn the basics? That is the typical of average intellect, But to say the information is not there in high-school is a complete and utter fallacy. Have you seen the diverse highly intellects AMERICAN SCHOOLS HAVE GRADUATED As opposed to Palestian schools which teach, real distorted history, racism, hate, and bomb making.

4. My wife and I are BOTH in college, BOTH paying for it and BOTH set on our majors. So why you are referring to that, I do not know. Stick to the subject and stop sidetracking every goddamn thread. Your propaganda tactics are evident. It wont work much longer. People are catching on. You're going to have to actually know and speak the truth very soon.

Paying for college with what? She support herself and you? Kind of Ironic that you find our schools worthless yet you are paying to go to one and learn from it. LOL! That is greatly Ironic indeed. Propaganda tactics? Stop confussing myself with yourself. I never side tracked anything, though you did in your reply. People are catching on? I'm honest bitch, And no amount of your minced oath way of debating will confiscate that! I do speak the truth... Unlike you who gets everything off racist websites and fictional books. Dude this is not a GAME... it's a dicussion (or atleast I thought it was)... Something your immature mindless cortex can't grasp. Please, move to france that is your lifestyle... UnEmployment is respected, slothfulness is respected, Emo is their new ideology, and their government is worse than america's, so you should have no problem bitching about IT all day long inside a coffe shop with other nagative posers just like yourself.

[JonathanRex]

Originally Posted by menaz

I'm not lying!
Private school, Military school, India?

INDIANA is a state. It is between Ohio and Illinois, right below Michigan and above Kentucky. Studied the United States Gov but you didn't know this?

One suggestive question. How come you can never answer what I speak on? you always red herring the conversation with your hate jargon which isn't even true by the way.

What question did you ask that I did not respond to?

No see, actually the nation wasn't based on religion that is why america has seperation of church and state, People were religious not the nations democracy. The four fathers were not religious at all, Though they did respect others religious beliefs. If liberity was Pseudo... blacks would not have their RIGHTS today, America would still be a autocracy under england Kings... and Muslism would not be able to set-up mosques in new-york as well as in other places in america... Liberty is real, Freedom is real. How does the rich get wealthy? Again you are blaming other people for your poor problems( this isn't 1959 anymore)... STOP IT! You think eminem started out RICH? You are the biggest EMO with a bag full of excuses. Suppose your book is real? Noone will read your book, But IF they do by some chance scholars will tare you apart for what you really are and for what I've been saying along... A Pseudo-intellectual with a hatred for America. Just a suggestion You better label that book FICTION!

Here we see Menaz going off track once again ranting about things which do not apply.

A few well off entertainers keep people like you believing that you have a chance to succeed in a nation where nearly half of the money is passing through the hands of the elite 1%. It is the left hand performing a trick of the eye so that you do not see what the right hand is doing.

Menaz - We are too free
Jonathan - No we're not
Menaz - Anybody who wants to get rich in this country is free to get rich.
Jonathan - What does getting rich have to do with liberty?
Menaz - You're angry because you're not rich, you're wife is supporting you, you're a pseudo-intellectual! You should label your book fiction.

This is how conversations with you always have and always will carry out.
You're mentally incapable of any adult conversation. You are precisely the reason that Aldous Huxley supported Eugenics.

Wrong, see what you miss is the facts... Polictians, adminastrations terms all END. That is what you fail to understand. That is not like the Roman emperor who's Throne is held until he dies and then passes on to his sons. Now, Your fallacy is to escape-goat by trying to make the rome-to-america analogy... when the reality actually is America-to-rome is analogous.

Their "administrations" may end but the connections which they make while in office and the power that they are achieving in those short terms carries over into the corperate world. Don't you think its just a little fuckin strange that Bush Sr wanted to hit Iraq and then between Bush Sr and Bush Jr, Iraq wasn't even a problem. Then came 9-11 and we had to go after terrorists . . . now we're suddenly back in Iraq and have stayed there. Nobody is going after Osama. Nobody even gives a shit about him. That was never the goal in the first place. Iraq and the Oil Fields were the goal from the beginning.

Are you really this naive to believe that their power dissipates as soon as their terms end? You must be retarded. If you say something that stupid again you're going back on ignore.

Not really actually is is quite easy to find, Which means even finding makes america a liberal and free nation. But, In your case any conspiracry web site and Neo-liberal blog will do. You didn't pay attention in school... Either that or you didn't take the elevated classes of History, english, latin, science, Math instead you choose to just learn the basics? That is the typical of average intellect, But to say the information is not there in high-school is a complete and utter fallacy. Have you seen the diverse highly intellects AMERICAN SCHOOLS HAVE GRADUATED As opposed to Palestian schools which teach, real distorted history, racism, hate, and bomb making.

What does any of this have to do with the subject which we are discussing?
I have NEVER posted a conspiracy website. Who are you confusing me with?

Paying for college with what? She support herself and you? Kind of Ironic that you find our schools worthless yet you are paying to go to one and learn from it. LOL!

Uh, I was talking about K-12.
Last time I checked, K-12 didn't include "college."
And why do you call them "your" schools?
Do you have some claim to the University?
Is it because you're a U.S. Citizen and you believe that somehow makes it your responsibility to fight for campus in "your" country?

Why do you feel an allegiance to a school which sits in the corner of a state that you've never even visited?

As for the rest of it. When you're married, there is no "her" money and "my" money. It is "our" money. And most of "our" money has come from "my" work.
Soooo

Again you're using propaganda.
Is it even possible for you to carry a conversation and stay on subject?
You have the mind of a female. Conversational hopscotch like a motherfucker.

That is greatly Ironic indeed. Propaganda tactics? Stop confussing myself with yourself. I never side tracked anything, though you did in your reply. People are catching on? I'm honest bitch, And no amount of your minced oath way of debating will confiscate that! I do speak the truth... Unlike you who gets everything off racist websites and fictional books. Dude this is not a GAME... it's a dicussion (or atleast I thought it was)... Something your immature mindless cortex can't grasp. Please, move to france that is your lifestyle... UnEmployment is respected, slothfulness is respected, Emo is their new ideology, and their government is worse than america's, so you should have no problem bitching about IT all day long inside a coffe shop with other nagative posers just like yourself.

Blah Blah

We live in a nation that actually teaches that if you're poor it is because you're lazy which is complete bullshit. There are people who work 12 hours a day for 30 fucking years just to scrape out a living while some cocksucker in an office signs one paper and make 20 million.

Really, what are you gaining from being this ignorant?

[JonathanRex]

It would be nice if you actually had the ability to reply to the subject once in a while, Menaz.

You do this sidetracking shit in every . . . last . . . god . . . damned thread you post in.
The thread is about Mondragon and how the company is run compared to how factories and businesses are run here in the states. I'm almost certain you didn't review the links at all and only came in here to argue with me because I verbally bitch slapped you in the Spectrum. This is why you have elected to try to prove that everything in the United States is wonderful and doesn't need to be changed instead of replying to the TITLE of the thread and what it was intended for.

Grow up, kid.

[BeEgEe]

way to skew the argument rex.

you always do.


hows life trapped in that box you live in.


you sound depressed.

move out of kansas and go to a real school.

[BeEgEe]

Originally Posted by JonathanRex

3. Yes, the information is available but you have to look really hard for it. You have to have a questioning mind as well because 12 years of "Capitalism" conditioning is the same as 20 years of Religious conditioning. You must not only read other books but you must be able to find and read the CORRECT books. Not only that, you must also be able to think from an unbiased perspective and take in the information without associating your already pre-conditioned beliefs and views and almost NOBODY can do that.

laughable.


if you and all the people around you have this problem
I feel bad for you

[JonathanRex]

Begee - Respond to the subject. Stop sidetracking threads with your idiot boyfriend.

[BeEgEe]

Originally Posted by JonathanRex

.




Their "administrations" may end but the connections which they make while in office and the power that they are achieving in those short terms carries over into the corperate world. Don't you think its just a little fuckin strange that Bush Sr wanted to hit Iraq and then between Bush Sr and Bush Jr, Iraq wasn't even a problem. Then came 9-11 and we had to go after terrorists . . . now we're suddenly back in Iraq and have stayed there. Nobody is going after Osama. Nobody even gives a shit about him. That was never the goal in the first place. Iraq and the Oil Fields were the goal from the beginning.

Are you really this naive to believe that their power dissipates as soon as their terms end? You must be retarded. If you say something that stupid again you're going back on ignore.





I AGREE, tis fucked up.
BUT WHAT IS CRYING ABOUT IT GONNA DO?







As for the rest of it. When you're married, there is no "her" money and "my" money. It is "our" money. And most of "our" money has come from "my" work.
Soooo




WHAT WORK





Blah Blah

We live in a nation that actually teaches that if you're poor it is because you're lazy which is complete bullshit. There are people who work 12 hours a day for 30 fucking years just to scrape out a living while some cocksucker in an office signs one paper and make 20 million.



life is not fair john.
and the US doesnt preach if your poor your lazy.

Really, what are you gaining from being this ignorant?

your ignorant.

[BeEgEe]

i dont even like the motherfucker.

[JonathanRex]

Originally Posted by Beegee

I AGREE, tis fucked up.
BUT WHAT IS CRYING ABOUT IT GONNA DO?

Who's crying about it? I created a thread to get people to discuss and think about it.
(Which isn't happening because Menaz and yourself are too busy accusing me of crying about it - derr derr) Imagine if we actually discussed subject on RM. I wonder what that would be like. To discuss a subject, like adults do without going way off track and getting nowhere. Can you imagine it?

Originally Posted by Beegee

WHAT WORK

Begee, I'm going to try to be as polite as I can with this fucking response.
I worked for 7 goddamn years and saved up so that I could afford to go to college full time.
Why do you suppose I didn't go to college until I was 24? I worked for 7 goddamn years and saved everything I could just so I could afford NOT to work while in college.
We take out loans for school and live off the money I made during that time.

Now I have a book which is being published and will be receiving royalty checks in February and August. Is that not work? Writing isn't work? What the fuck is? Clocking in and out for somebody else? You motherfuckers are really pissing me off with this "WHAT WORK!?" shit.
I've worked harder to get where I am than anybody on this whole fuckin site.

Don't ask me "what work" again.
Otherwise I'll put your ass on ignore and be done with you.

Originally Posted by Begee

life is not fair john.
and the US doesnt preach if your poor your lazy.

It's not about life being "fair" it is about the 99% of this nation allowing 1% to divide and dominate them. It is about Capitalism being an evil fucking system.
It is about every goddamn thing about this nation and how not an ounce of it is honest or true!

There is going to be a revolution.
This entire system will collapse.


And the U.S. sure the fuck does preach that if you're poor it is because you're lazy.
If it didn't we wouldn't be so far down on the scale with welfare. Do you realize that in Europe there are countries who provide FREE child care which is Government Funded and run because it is considered a human fucking right? Do you realize that in other nations their % of poor children are nearly 10x less than ours? Dude, open your fucking eyes. Get out of Dade county for a while. This country is fucked up from California to New York. We got people starving to death in this country. Not because they don't want to work but because there is nowhere TO WORK!

Our government REQUIRES that Millions of people remain out of work in order for it to stand!? While these cocksuckers own 5 Yahts and take vacations every week to another country to merge with another business we have MILLIONS of people who cannot get a goddamn job. We have MILLIONS of old people who are only getting a small portion of their Social Security back. We have MILLIONS of children going hungry RIGHT HERE!

Fuck this nation!
Fuck everything it stands for!
Fuck everybody who upholds it as well.

[BeEgEe]

Originally Posted by JonathanRex