The God Thread

[Joro]

Here's where you talk about God. Talk about what the concept means to you.

To me the concept is bullshit, like everything else in my "existence"........

I say Fuck God ........ What do you say?

[salvavertate]

I say fuck religion, but maybe not God himself (or herself, or itself, or whatever God may be), because in truth, God is a completely separate entity from religion.
The intellectual capacity of human beings on earth allows for our knowledge of God himself to be truly nothing more than speculation.
Religion, however, is an attempt by humans to define what may only perpetually elude us...an attempt to organize human faith into a defnitive line of strictly detailed beliefs supported by myth whose only legitimacy derives from historical human submission to it.
Personally, I think at the very foundation of religion is corruption...particularly Abrahimic religions. I feel like the only reason historically that humans divided themselves into these religious factions was so that more people could come into power by preaching to the human fear that so often controls our actions. The only things that all Abrahimic religions don't have in common are the tiny bullshit details that have absolutely no proven basis in reality.
As for non-Abrahimic religions, I can't claim to know much about them, but I do know that I have more respect for a religion that puts emphasis on people and nature than on religious facts that seem to be nothing more than implausible historical innaccuracies.
I find the study of religion and mythology to be ridiculously intriguing...and the homologies that exist between religions are actually incredible...enough to make you believe that there is any basis in reality. Still, I don't believe in such strict division based on such speculative information...but then again, as people we find all kinds of ways to divide ourselves.
I believe in faith independent of religion. I believe a lot in spirituality and I'm pretty sure there's more than just straight science to our existence. I will say that I do believe a God may exist...but I don't believe that he fits the specifications defined by any human religion...at least not one I've ever heard of.

[ebonisunset]

I know for a fact that god is real!! Because i know where he has brought me from!! Don't get me wrong i'm not a bible thumping individual that has no flaws because id do. Never would i ever say fuck god. As far as religion goes i don't believe that you have to have any type of religious affiliation to have a close personal relationship with god. I really feel that religion is something that the devil uses to separate gods people. The reason i feel this way is because when we talk about christianity(being christ-like) there are many religions like jehovah's witnesses, catholic, methodist, protestant... Just to name a few all of these religions study from the bible and yet they all feud over who's practices it correctly to me religion is nothing but peoples interpretation of the bible that a view the same way by others and hence, you have a religion.

[SIZZLA]

Originally Posted by Joro

Here's where you talk about God. Talk about what the concept means to you.

To me the concept is bullshit, like everything else in my "existence"........

I say Fuck God ........ What do you say?

well... your reply is a product of greco roman hellenized deception.you speak of a god as if there is only one. as if its personal when having a god is not. god is a very broad definition. whenever a person says that they dont believe in "god," they say it with such conviction! when the fact of the matter is, we all have a god. in fact, the christian belief that one can have their own personal relationship with god, or a gaod, thats the central core of hellenization in and of itself. its deception. every man becomes the master of his own belief, master of his/her own fate and destiny, ones own god! everyones truth becomes truth. what each person believes becomes law! in their own liberal demoncratic social construct. false freedoms and a false sense of freedom, emotional refreshment or church, vices, life styles, well, they all becomes the mode of existance that govern each and every individual. so then, the local laws become the real issue and thus, we all serve the powers that be like it or not. christian, jew, hebrew or klansman, we all serve the same mothaphuckas that bends each and every one of us over one at a time and/or all together. now... on that note. do i believe in a being that is much more knowledgeable or supream than myself? than us all? rather its an intellect, a energy or force, or a E.T., yes, i trust that it does exist. how if, when, and as well as why it would communicate and/or interfear with our daily human lives? that, i dont know. thats up for debate. nevertheless, we are not alone. that is a fact. so, thats the damn truth in a nut shell!

[salvavertate]

Originally Posted by ebonisunset

I really feel that religion is something that the devil uses to separate gods people.

nah...religion is something that people use to separate god's people (or whoever's people we may be)...and the fact that your concept of religion is so constrained to simply christianity kind of undermines everything you just said...

[salvavertate]

Also - I definitely don't believe in any kind of narcissistic, tyrannical masochist of a God who's just waiting to drop us in the fiery pits of Hell if we don't all blindly submit to and worship every aspect of his being...even if someone could give me 100% conclusive evidence that that God existed, I would probably still rather go to Hell (or whatever the fuck exists)

I believe in and will be faithful to only a God who respects man for his convictions and good intentions...not for being his bitch

[ebonisunset]

Originally Posted by salvavertate

nah...religion is something that people use to separate god's people (or whoever's people we may be)...and the fact that your concept of religion is so constrained to simply christianity kind of undermines everything you just said...

first of all i never said not even once that my concept of religion is simply Christianity. The point i was trying to make was under the umbrella of Christianity there are many religions that simply do not agree with each other(they cannot even get along long enough to agree to disagree. i would see why someone who is Methodist would not see eye to eye with someone who is Muslim.

[salvavertate]

okay, well then I guess that's the difference between you and me...I don't see why someone who's Methodist can't see eye to eye with someone who's Muslim...

[.:Pain:.]

^Perhaps because their entire concept of God, cultism, prophets, and religious ethics are almost completely different?

Perhaps...

[ebonisunset]

Originally Posted by .:Pain:.

^Perhaps because their entire concept of God, cultism, prophets, and religious ethics are almost completely different?

Perhaps...

Um.. you took the words right out of my mouth couldnt have said it better myself

[salvavertate]

Originally Posted by .:Pain:.

^Perhaps because their entire concept of God, cultism, prophets, and religious ethics are almost completely different?

Perhaps...

You clearly haven't grasped any of the message I'm trying to convey...what about if I said I can't understand what would possess anyone to let something as speculative as religion drive such a fierce division between themself and anyone else...would that make more sense to you? Why can't they agree to disagree about their cultism, prophets, and ethics? Perhaps that's what I meant?

Yes, perhaps...

[.:Pain:.]

You clearly haven't grasped any of the message I'm trying to convey...what about if I said I can't understand what would possess anyone to let something as speculative as religion drive such a fierce division between themself and anyone else...would that make more sense to you? Why can't they agree to disagree about their cultism, prophets, and ethics? Perhaps that's what I meant?

Lol, Because we are human beings. Sociology has taught me that the average human being is constantly making distinctions between themselves and other people. You also have to look at the environment in which these particular religious beliefs are fostered. Sure, it's easy for you to say that everybody's the same yadda yadda yadda, but that's because you grew a certain way, raised by certain people, in a certain environment. If you had grown up in Kabul, in a religious school that teaches Islam is the only way and everyone else are heathens, had that reinforced by the society around, as well as having religious and cultural propoganda shoved down your throat, you may not be so open-minded.

You have to judge people based on their own standards, not yours...

[salvavertate]

Okay...I get where you're coming from and I almost fully agree with what you're saying...people can't be expected to completely transcend what's intrinsic to their beliefs, and I understand that certain beliefs have become innate values to certain groups of people...I just don't understand why people have to convert their own convictions into an opposition to all those who believe otherwise

Most religions preach tolerance of other belief systems...so why do people not take advantage of these aspects of religious law?
The Bible preaches tolerance of other religions, as does the Qur'an...Jesus (according to the Bible) also said to do unto others as you wish they'd do to you, no matter to whom it may be, and Islam preaches that the murder of one innocent human being is equivalent to that of the entire world...so why does this shit still happen?

The Islamic Jihad, for example, is something that I understand fits into the category of idealogies that you mentioned that have been strictly reinforced with no outlet...but the Jihad to me, is something that's incredibly misunderstood...not just by westerners who haven't studied Islam, but even by those figures of high religious standing who people believe have the legitimacy to preach it...

I guess I just think people inherently corrupt things like religion...but I don't necessarily think we can turn back time and cleanse everyone's mind of their ideologies...I might be optimistic but I'm not that crazy :P

[.:Pain:.]

I just don't understand why people have to convert their own convictions into an opposition to all those who believe otherwise

It's a psychological mechanism called seperation. They are not conciously opposing anything, it's more about social stratification and class. People try to rationalize why they are better than other people, and they then assume they are better based on certain criteria, whether it be religious, weath-based, or aesthetically based.
Most religions preach tolerance of other belief systems...so why do people not take advantage of these aspects of religious law?

The Bible preaches tolerance of other religions, as does the Qur'an...Jesus (according to the Bible) also said to do unto others as you wish they'd do to you, no matter to whom it may be, and Islam preaches that the murder of one innocent human being is equivalent to that of the entire world...so why does this shit still happen?

In fact, all of the major world religions hold these exact beliefs. Love thy neighbor, respect thy neighbor, and avoid coveting. The reason why these cultures stand in conflict with one another is not a product of the religion itself, or even the people who follow that religion, it is more the product of the leaders of these religions. In standing for their own religion, they often see other religions as standing in opposition, since to become a leader of a religion, you often times have to be fanatical in your beliefs to get people to believe that you are indeed worthy of leading a religion. In turn, they quote random parts of whichever holy book they so choose and use these quotes as justification for their actions. So while the Qur'ran says (an actual direct quote from Mohammmed) to respect the people of the book, Islamic leaders instead choose to focus on the parts where the prophet says that followers of other religions are infidels, and simply omit the former quotation.

Really, the major fault in the chasms in religions that we see today lies within the leaders of the religion, who are often times fanatical and narcissistic. They believe they know what's right, we install them in power, and in turn listen to them and accept whatever interpretations they so choose to find relevant to what they're saying/doing.

In short, the problem lies in the manipulation of the masses by the more intelligent yet less sane leaders of organized religion.

The Islamic Jihad, for example, is something that I understand fits into the category of idealogies that you mentioned that have been strictly reinforced with no outlet...but the Jihad to me, is something that's incredibly misunderstood...not just by westerners who haven't studied Islam, but even by those figures of high religious standing who people believe have the legitimacy to preach it...

Very true, and one only has to search for a short period of time to find Muslim Clerics who believe that Jihad is a spiritual journey, not the physical manifestation that seems to be accepted by the fanatics. However, those clerics are rarely shown on TV, not just here, but in the Muslim world as well, so their message is rarely heard.

I guess I just think people inherently corrupt things like religion...but I don't necessarily think we can turn back time and cleanse everyone's mind of their ideologies...I might be optimistic but I'm not that crazy :P

Not people, individuals. Individuals corrupt religion, and in turn corrupt those who believe in that religion. Which lead us to the mess we are in today...

[salvavertate]

Originally Posted by .:Pain:.

Not people, individuals. Individuals corrupt religion, and in turn corrupt those who believe in that religion. Which lead us to the mess we are in today...

True...I don't really have a problem with people who simply practice religion, it's the people who stand as so called religious authorities that get me. Most people who believe they have religious authority over others only think this due to other aspects of narcissism or fanaticism as you've already mentioned.

Let me just point out - I don't automatically have a problem with everyone who has a position in any religious order, but I do feel like often times people who come into those positions take advantage of the confidence that people have in them. It's human nature to turn to people with higher authority on the subject when faced with a concept as heavy as that of God...I think often times out of fear which, as I said earlier, is taken advantage of by some people to perpetuate their own beliefs and interpretations of religious text. The reason that I think religion is corrupted by people, or individuals, is because no individual can teach the Bible or the Qur'an or the Torah exactly as God would have meant them...objectivity is a rare virtue.

I do have a lot of respect for all those in religious positions who do acknowledge and preach the tolerance that is a part of all religions.

[.:Pain:.]

Let me just point out - I don't automatically have a problem with everyone who has a position in any religious order, but I do feel like often times people who come into those positions take advantage of the confidence that people have in them. It's human nature to turn to people with higher authority on the subject when faced with a concept as heavy as that of God...I think often times out of fear which, as I said earlier, is taken advantage of by some people to perpetuate their own beliefs and interpretations of religious text. The reason that I think religion is corrupted by people, or individuals, is because no individual can teach the Bible or the Qur'an or the Torah exactly as God would have meant them...objectivity is a rare virtue.

Certain individuals can. Jesus did. It's certainly a rare commodity, and the worst part about it is, people rarely listen to them anyways...

[KingMenace]

People invoke the name "God" to mean anything from "energy" to "aliens" to a timeless transcendant pre-universe creative anthropomorphic being of SOME sort, to a guy named Jesus and quite a few things in between.

When people state what they generally mean by god, it's just a smeared-out referent that has little meaning at all -- it's hard to nail people down on any specifics other than "something with creative powers." I don't see that anyone has answered the question: "What EXACTLY is God (and what is God not)?, " so I usually don't concern myself with it. I really don't give a damn what people choose to believe in metaphysically or theistically, so long as they don't try to use it for socio-political or individual power. Blah, blah, blah.

[Joro]

Originally Posted by salvavertate

...I don't see why someone who's Methodist can't see eye to eye with someone who's Muslim...

yea ...

Whatever it is that makes crops grow and herds multiply in Arab nations is the same entity that makes crops and animals grow in Christian countries. So they all have the same source. They should see eye to eye. I believe that a godly man of superior knowledge would be able to reconcile the two groups with facts.

[Knowledge]

I say fuck life, I just want to head collide with everything til blood drips everywhere... mmmmm

[Joro]

Originally Posted by Knowledge

I say fuck life, I just want to head collide with everything til blood drips everywhere... mmmmm

Head-on bloody collision? Yea ... it's gonna hurt a little, but in the end you'll feel much better for having gone through it - it's like taking a massive shit.