why do Muslims honor the poor treatment of their women?

[Nu'maaN]

Originally Posted by Alias3000

I've read quite a bit of it, as I was almost ready to join the nation when I was 21.

so i take it you're african? who else would join the nation with those radical racial beliefs. it is a distorted version of islam to win the votes of the blacks in the states. but may i ask, what stopped you from joining?

Originally Posted by Alias3000

fair enough. so where in the Qu'ran do the radical Muslims get this, because I can't find it anywhere in the qu'ran. are you saying they are just mad men?

beyond mad. they are fucked up beings who use religion as their excuse to exercise their lack of intellect and intense love for male domination. as you stated, it is no where in the Qur'an.

Originally Posted by Alias3000

"They" were Muslims, who were burying their women dog. whoever stopped it did a good thing, but you gotta realize, "they" were Arab Muslims who were doing this.

lol @ them being muslims who were burying their daughters. it was in the arab jahiliya (ignorance) age that the arabs, not muslims, arabs were burying their daughters. and it wasn't like pre-islam there was nobody opposing this. yes, they were. Zayd ibn Amr, the cousin of Umar ibn al-Khattab were among many who were famous for opposing female infanticide.

you say you have read the Qur'an, so you must remember this verse?

"When the female infant, buried alive, is questioned - for what crime was she killed; when the scrolls are laid open; when the World on High is unveiled; when the Blazing Fire is kindled to fierce heat; and when the Garden is brought near - Then shall each soul know what it has put forward. So verily I call (at-Takwir: 8-15).

The Qur'an warned those who had practised this sinful custom that should they not repent for their unjust refusal of their daughters' lives, their personal records of deeds would be tainted with murder.

Originally Posted by Alias3000

prove it. are there any high-rankning Muslim women that hold high positions in Islamic governments? I'd like to read up on some of them.

okay, Masoumeh Ebtekar, the first vice president of Iran. yes, Iran. Pakistan used to have a female president Bhenazir Bhutto. she got assasinated just last year, not because of her female status, but due to uncountable corruption charges.

in the past several decades, many countries in which muslims are a majority, including Indonesia, Pakistan (as i stated above), Bangladesh, and Turkey, have been led by women. nearly one-third of the Parliament of Egypt also consists of women.

Originally Posted by Alias3000

they are forced to wear that. they are not encouraged. death becomes them if they disobey that law of the land.

next time you talk to a woman in the full ninja outfit, ask her - have you been forced to wear this by the men in your household. see what they say. the Qur'an encourages women to cover parts of the body that SHOULD be covered. so this doesn't include the face, the hands, etc. as believed by many.

Originally Posted by Alias3000

it's based on control. how can a man be attracted to a women if he can't see her body? arranged marriages?

lol @ arranged marriages. it's become a custom, almost culture to arrange their kids marriage with others in some countries. it has it's positives, because you know the background of the family, less divorces, etc. but then again, it sucks and i think the whole arranged marriage shit should be obselete by now. it is not an islamic thing, merely a cultural ritual practised.

i'd be attracted to a woman who dressed modestly, more than the bitch dressed in a mini.

Originally Posted by Alias3000

So where are all the Moderate Muslims condemning it? most of them are scared shitless and won't dare speak out against the radicals.

the term moderate muslims has been played out more than the "milli" beat. it came into play because of the term "extremist" muslims. fuck them. there is no moderate, or extremist. if you are muslim, by definition you should be moderate. “There is no Compulsion in Religion” (Al Qur’ān, 2:256). that's the muslim path, the middle path. as Prophet Muhammad taught: “…Aim for what is right, follow a middle path, and head for the goal in the morning, evening and some of the night and you will reach the goal.” (Bukhari)

Originally Posted by Alias3000

yall don't realize that the radical Muslims give Islam as a whole a bad name? So what are you doing about it as a Muslim society? you're not thrwoing them in prison that's for sure, you're not doing shit, really.

brother, i hate the radical cunts beyond comprehension. radicals are like soulja boy in hip hop, fuckin' up the image. but for those who don't know hip hop. learn islam and you will know the real from the fake. the rakims from the souljah boys. just trying to keep it in context to the board lol.

Originally Posted by Alias3000

not a damn thing ignorant about my approach. I'm just fact-finding. don't get mad, get informed.

that "ignorant" statement was directed to radium, not you.

Originally Posted by Alias3000

From what I know, the beard symbolizes strength and power. the bigger the beard the more respect they get. even the red turban and white turbans symbolizes strength and leadership. not just to tuck away their hair.

i think you got it twisted with sikhism.

Originally Posted by Alias3000

You need to study more. the beard has a definite significance.

i never said it didn't. i just said it didn't hold as much weight as other important laws in islam.

Originally Posted by Alias3000

a "good" Muslim..haha..more like a good "warrior" Muslim.

nice try, you were good until this point.

fuck, that took a while man ...

...

[.:Pain:.]

you say she's 8. she was engaged at 9, and married off at 16, when she had matured enough. you cannot go on calling the Prophet a pedophile before reading the definition of a pedophile.

lol You can't just make up facts to help support your beliefs. That's not what it says in the Qur'ran...

[Radium]

nu'maan come on doggy its just some jeans

how are jeans too revealing according to islam though

I'm sorry

but...

LOL

[reggie_jax]

Originally Posted by Radium

you make your women (by the way you don't actually own them in case you didnt know) wear clothes that are deliberately designed to suppress the female body.

What is your problem with the female body?

please please explain to me

my whole thing is two points

1. you have no swag

2. only people with no swag would want to suppress the female body instead of glorify/appreciate the female body

God made it right? did God not make it beautiful? you have no swag.

Trying to suppress the beauty of a female comes out of insecurity in a man. A woman would have never ever invented that stupid rule because a woman would never be ashamed of her body unless made to do so.

LOL @ a bunch of ugly swagless muslim dudes teaching their women to be ashamed of themselves


IF you say that the reason for forcing them to dress like that (suppress their body) is because its a sign of loyalty/devotion to their man then how-come-why the same rules don't apply for the men? you have no swag lets just face it.

quick question

why do you suppose people began wearing clothes?

[.:Pain:.]

^To protect their johnson's from giant mosquitoes...

[reggie_jax]

why don't we just have a coat of fur, then? how come even in climates where clothes are not physically needed, we still feel the need to cover up?

[.:Pain:.]

^To protect their johnson's from giant mosquitoes...

Word...

[SIZZLA]

we can not forget who the people are who founded Islam... heathens. they were sun woshiping ungodly uncivilized heathens. not to mention, Hellenizm did effect Islam in the same way that it effected the rest of the world. Islam came under the influence of deception right along with the rest of the Adamic civilization. their concept of the here after, God, man, woman, Truth, as with all things were altered by the Greco-Roman world. so, just like with the theological vision shared by the other major religions, Islam also has its issues. being insecure with how a woman dresses (in moderation) herself is only one validation of the warped ideal that men developed after the fall of Adam and the rise of the satanic seed... Islam was not spared.

[Nu'maaN]

Originally Posted by .:Pain:.

lol You can't just make up facts to help support your beliefs. That's not what it says in the Qur'ran...

pain, it doesn't mention in the Qur'an the age of Aisha when she married the Prophet. however, according to traditions, hadith as we call it, it has been proven that she was not the age you mentioned.

Maulana Muhammad Ali was the first Islamic scholar directly to challenge the notion that Aisha was aged six and nine, respectively, at the time of her nikah and consummation of marriage. in the booklet Prophet of Islam, which was later incorporated in 1948 as the first chapter of his book Living Thoughts of the Prophet Muhammad, he writes in a lengthy footnote as follows:

“A great misconception prevails as to the age at which Aisha was taken in marriage by the Prophet. Ibn Sa‘d has stated in the Tabaqat that when Abu Bakr [father of Aisha] was approached on behalf of the Holy Prophet, he replied that the girl had already been betrothed to Jubair, and that he would have to settle the matter first with him.

This shows that Aisha must have been approaching majority at the time. Again, the Isaba, speaking of the Prophet’s daughter Fatima, says that she was born five years before the Call and was about five years older than Aisha. This shows that Aisha must have been about ten years at the time of her betrothal to the Prophet, and not six years as she is generally supposed to be. This is further borne out by the fact that Aisha herself is reported to have stated that when the chapter [of the Holy Quran] entitled The Moon, the fifty-fourth chapter, was revealed, she was a girl playing about and remembered certain verses then revealed.

Now the fifty-fourth chapter was undoubtedly revealed before the sixth year of the Call. All these considerations point to but one conclusion, viz., that Aisha could not have been less than ten years of age at the time of her nikah, which was virtually only a betrothal. And there is one report in the Tabaqat that Aisha was nine years of age at the time of nikah. Again it is a fact admitted on all hands that the nikah of Aisha took place in the tenth year of the Call in the month of Shawwal, while there is also preponderance of evidence as to the consummation of her marriage taking place in the second year of Hijra in the same month, which shows that full five years had elapsed between the nikah and the consummation.

Hence there is not the least doubt that Aisha was at least nine or ten years of age at the time of betrothal, and fourteen or fifteen years at the time of marriage.”

To facilitate understanding dates of these events, please note that it was in the tenth year of the Call, i.e. the tenth year after the Holy Prophet Muhammad received his calling from God to his mission of prophethood, that his wife Khadija passed away, and the approach was made to Abu Bakr for the hand of his daughter Aisha. The hijra or emigration of the Holy Prophet to Madina took place three years later, and Aisha came to the household of the Holy Prophet in the second year after hijra. So if Aisha was born in the year of the Call, she would be ten years old at the time of the nikah and fifteen years old at the time of the consummation of the marriage.

i do not believe blindly, if that is what you are claiming, and i'm not making up facts to support my beliefs.

Originally Posted by Radium

nu'maan come on doggy its just some jeans

how are jeans too revealing according to islam though

I'm sorry

but...

LOL

lol, i'm talking about the tight demin jeans that wake up the beast downstairs the minute you see them. how you fit in them jeans, apple bottom jeans, those types lol. i love them, but i won't want my wifey strutting around in tight denim in public, because i know how much other men love them.

it's not hypocritical, it's just that i don't want others thinking perverted thoughts about my wife. that is all ...

...

[Radium]

Originally Posted by Nu'maaN

lol, i'm talking about the tight demin jeans that wake up the beast downstairs the minute you see them. how you fit in them jeans, apple bottom jeans, those types lol. i love them, but i won't want my wifey strutting around in tight denim in public, because i know how much other men love them.

it's not hypocritical, it's just that i don't want others thinking perverted thoughts about my wife. that is all ...

...

see this is why ive been calling you insecure in addition to also regarding women as property. Feeling bad about other men even just looking at "your" woman and feeling its your right to determine how she should dress her own body.

and if she refuses you shame her into thinking she is a whore....because she wears some jeans...

thats your beliefs and your entitled to them but you must see that the roots underneath are strung around insecurity and a sense of women as property

[reggie_jax]

Originally Posted by .:Pain:.

Word...

doesn't make sense from an evolutionary point of view... we had a perfectly good coat of fur at one point to 'protect our johnsons from big mosquitoes.' we wouldn't have shed that coat if protection was our only concern.

we also wouldn't feel the need to cover up females' breasts and in the case of some cultures, their hair/faces as well. do you think its simply coincidence that every area in our western culture that is considered explicit not to cover (tits, ass, dick, pussy) are all sexual devices?

[Nu'maaN]

Originally Posted by Radium

see this is why ive been calling you insecure in addition to also regarding women as property. Feeling bad about other men even just looking at "your" woman and feeling its your right to determine how she should dress her own body.

and if she refuses you shame her into thinking she is a whore....because she wears some jeans...

thats your beliefs and your entitled to them but you must see that the roots underneath are strung around insecurity and a sense of women as property

refusal of not dressing modestly is not an automatic whore status. dressing like a whore is considered whore status. there is a major difference. denim is not whorish at all, unless it's from 'fuck-my-jeans.com' lol.

back to the topic at hand though, you can call it what you want - insecurity, etc. i wouldn't mind my wife wearing denim, aslong as it looks nice, modest, and hot at the same time. i have no problem with that. but everybody has a preference, and mine is that a lady dresses modestly. however, if she doesn't want to and wants to wear jeans like that, i'm not going to force her not to and label her a whore.

you're reaching and you know it, you just aching to find a fault within a muslim. i know, it hurts ...

...

[reggie_jax]

Originally Posted by Radium

see this is why ive been calling you insecure in addition to also regarding women as property. Feeling bad about other men even just looking at "your" woman and feeling its your right to determine how she should dress her own body.

and if she refuses you shame her into thinking she is a whore....because she wears some jeans...

thats your beliefs and your entitled to them but you must see that the roots underneath are strung around insecurity and a sense of women as property

it's natural to be possessive over your wife/husband.. human beings are a pair-bonding species.. meaning we are naturally inclined to long term monogamous relationships.

however, we are also an oversexed species living in a huge, diverse society.. to the point that some measures in order to prevent overstimulation among strangers are necessary, in order to maintain a peaceful society without too much sexual rivalry or conflict.

most (successful) cultures tend to agree on the principle that some amount of modesty is needed.. the muslims with their burkas just have a stricter form of the very same principle that causes you and your wife/girlfriend to put on clothes each morning.

[Radium]

reggie ...you sound like 300 years old right now

[reggie_jax]

lol

[Alias3000]

Nu'Maan. I gotta give you credit for staying "cool". most muslims I encounter are rigid and dare not discuss these things. i will respond to your Q's in a minute. gotta move a dresser in the bed room.

[Alias3000]

Originally Posted by Nu'maaN

so i take it you're african? who else would join the nation with those radical racial beliefs. it is a distorted version of islam to win the votes of the blacks in the states. but may i ask, what stopped you from joining?

yes, I'm black. I'm being real honest when I tell you, I dared myself to question "God, who are you and will you please reveal yourself to me?". simple enough. and not even a week prior to me joining the nation of Islam, I got a strong sign and eversince then, I've been following Christ.

beyond mad. they are fucked up beings who use religion as their excuse to exercise their lack of intellect and intense love for male domination. as you stated, it is no where in the Qur'an.

fair enough.

lol @ them being muslims who were burying their daughters. it was in the arab jahiliya (ignorance) age that the arabs, not muslims, arabs were burying their daughters. and it wasn't like pre-islam there was nobody opposing this. yes, they were. Zayd ibn Amr, the cousin of Umar ibn al-Khattab were among many who were famous for opposing female infanticide.

Ok.

you say you have read the Qur'an, so you must remember this verse?

"When the female infant, buried alive, is questioned - for what crime was she killed; when the scrolls are laid open; when the World on High is unveiled; when the Blazing Fire is kindled to fierce heat; and when the Garden is brought near - Then shall each soul know what it has put forward. So verily I call (at-Takwir: 8-15).

The Qur'an warned those who had practised this sinful custom that should they not repent for their unjust refusal of their daughters' lives, their personal records of deeds would be tainted with murder.

yes, I've read it. I understand your point.

okay, Masoumeh Ebtekar, the first vice president of Iran. yes, Iran. Pakistan used to have a female president Bhenazir Bhutto. she got assasinated just last year, not because of her female status, but due to uncountable corruption charges.

in the past several decades, many countries in which muslims are a majority, including Indonesia, Pakistan (as i stated above), Bangladesh, and Turkey, have been led by women. nearly one-third of the Parliament of Egypt also consists of women.

cool. more research material. thanks

next time you talk to a woman in the full ninja outfit, ask her - have you been forced to wear this by the men in your household. see what they say. the Qur'an encourages women to cover parts of the body that SHOULD be covered. so this doesn't include the face, the hands, etc. as believed by many.

that's debatable.



will respond to the rest a little later tonight.

[Radium]

question:

is this girl dressed like a whore/not "modest" enough

[Radium]

*showing arms and face [-4 points]

*showing calves and ankles [-3.5 points]

*showing hair [-8 points]

*showing midriff [unforgivable sin]

*wearing tight pants [execution]

[Alias3000]

oh wow, that chick is HOT!

Mankind was created to enjoy god's creations, not cover them up.

Muslims Men actually think they can control lustful behavior by covering up their women. it does not work. Men lust regardless. that's our nature...to to be attracted and procreate with healthy, fit, women. this is my beef with Mulism women having to wear a Burka. it's rooted in Male domination by Muslim men and you cannot deny that Nu'Maan.

speak on it.