why do Muslims honor the poor treatment of their women?

.:Pain:. · 03-12-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

aisha was not 8 ...

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lol Whoops she was nine when Mohammed molested her, oh wait, sorry, "consumated." She was six when they married.

Yea, that's the kind of guy I'd like to base my entire ideology on...

Alias3000 · 03-12-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reggie_jax

if its good enough for the prophet then it's good enough for me

And ^ this is the attitude I come across when discussing this issue with Muslm men., most of your are sick. Aisha was 9 when Muhammed raped her. shame on him for that.

and Muslims seek violence as the FIRST option when trying to chastize their women. you can't make me believe that it was OK to behead that beautiful woman at that TV station. you will NOT make believe that a public execution of Muslim woman(shot in the head with an AK) for wanting to leave her husband was fair treatment...SAVE THAT SHIT!

Muslim Men, historically, are the sons of Ishmael, who was the bastard child of Abraham's one-night stand with his mistress Hagar. TRUTH!

It says in the Bible(will post verse later), that God gave power unto Ishmael and Issac(Abraham's son with his wife Sarah), but it was different powwers. Ishmael's power is rooted in the nature of the "wild man". He gave birth to a "warlike" people, Zealots, if you will, with no regard for human life. just a misguided zeal for what they "think" is right. that's a perfect description of the Muslim. they believe in "submission" by any means neccessary. and what is the definition of Islam - submission. TRUTH!

So again I ask, why does the Qu'ran support or turn the other cheek when their women are brutally slaughtered for the most stupidest shit by their Men?

The Bible teaches us that if you don't want your woman, you divorce(leave) her. and keep it moving. not stab her to death or behead her for not wanting to stay with your sorry ass!

Alias3000 · 03-12-2009, 04:28 PM

where are the moderate Muslims at? I want to talk to you, NOT your wild ass radical brethren in the nation of Islam, the nation of 'Submission'.

reggie_jax · 03-12-2009, 06:05 PM

cry some more faggot

Nu'maaN · 03-12-2009, 10:40 PM

great argument radium.

so basically, muslims have no swag.

well thought out, and coherently said (i'm being sarcastic incase you don't know).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radium

Trying to suppress the beauty of a female comes out of insecurity in a man. A woman would have never ever invented that stupid rule because a woman would never be ashamed of her body unless made to do so.

answer me this. your mother or sister (or wife for that matter) walks around the streets in an outfit that tempts other men. which leads some of them to gaze at them and think perverted thoughts. would you like that?

my opinion on this matter is a woman should dress modestly. that's it. have a bit of shame. your body is a beautiful creation, so only show it off to those who deserve to see it.

anything wrong with that? ...

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.:Pain:. · 03-13-2009, 12:39 PM

^I completely agree.

It's when that attitude becomes a mandatory doctrine that it bothers me.

I have all the respect in the world for beautifule women who dress modestly, I'm actually more attracted to those than the ones scantily (sp?) clad. But when a women does that because if she doesn't she could be stoned to death, there's somethin' wrong there.

I respect the average Muslim. Mohammed, for all his faults, was an incredible philosopher, I just wish he didn't force such a rigid regiment of submission on people...

Radium · 03-13-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nu'maaN

great argument radium.

so basically, muslims have no swag.

well thought out, and coherently said (i'm being sarcastic incase you don't know).

answer me this. your mother or sister (or wife for that matter) walks around the streets in an outfit that tempts other men. which leads some of them to gaze at them and think perverted thoughts. would you like that?

my opinion on this matter is a woman should dress modestly. that's it. have a bit of shame. your body is a beautiful creation, so only show it off to those who deserve to see it.

anything wrong with that? ...

...

yes

its not my body

its their body to do with as they like

of course you would say

"no, her body belongs to allah, her religion, her man"

and thats why i say you have zero swag.

dog you sound ancient

Nu'maaN · 03-15-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:Pain:.

But when a women does that because if she doesn't she could be stoned to death, there's somethin' wrong there.

this, again is religous leaders taking shit out of context. it might sound like a cliche, but it shouldn't be like that at all. yeah, you should cover yourself infront of those who are prospects for marriage, but not covering shouldn't lead to stoning. the Prophet never stoned a woman for not covering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:Pain:.

I respect the average Muslim. Mohammed, for all his faults, was an incredible philosopher, I just wish he didn't force such a rigid regiment of submission on people...

you found one fault on the Prophet Muhammad. Aisha. she was not 8. it's been misunderstood on a major level. but if you want to believe it, go for it. doesn't bother me in the least.

and as for forcing submission on the people, the Prophet Muhammad was all about moderation. "there should be no extremities in religion", but as i said earlier, believe what you may. atleast you argue on a mature level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radium

yes

its not my body

its their body to do with as they like

of course you would say

"no, her body belongs to allah, her religion, her man"

and thats why i say you have zero swag.

dog you sound ancient

lol @ her body belonging to Allah, her religion, her man.

prove it once i said that (apart from the valuable analogy, which can be read differently).

c'mon man, her body is her own.

so basically you find nothing wrong with some men on the streets looking at your sister/mother/wife (considering they dress provocatively), thinking perverted thoughts? if so, fair enough.

you act like women who dress modestly don't look hot what so ever. modest women are the most beautiful beings ever. i'm not saying i don't like women in denim. fuck no, i grew up in australia, raised here. so i'm used to the venom in the denim.

all i'm saying is, there's two extreme ends of the spectrum. pakistan has alot of women covered fully in alot of places, and in such places the visits to porn websites is the highest, by a long margin. but then, in places in the west where the women dress really really provocative, the rape rate is the highest.

just be pleased with the middleground, moderation ...

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reggie_jax · 03-15-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nu'maaN

all i'm saying is, there's two extreme ends of the spectrum. pakistan has alot of women covered fully in alot of places, and in such places the visits to porn websites is the highest, by a long margin. but then, in places in the west where the women dress really really provocative, the rape rate is the highest.

i think thats cause when there's a rape in one of those desert countries they log it as adultery, blame it on the woman and give her 100 lashes for being a stupid slut, numaan.

reggie_jax · 03-15-2009, 08:45 PM

where as in america if a bitch decides she regrets sleeping with the dude then it suddenly becomes a 'rape' (see: kobe bryant)

if she tried that in saudi arabia they'd spend the rest of the day thinking up cruel and badass punishments for the little bitch

Nu'maaN · 03-15-2009, 10:36 PM

^ true.

hypocrites. fuck 'em. can't stand 'em.

muslim men these days want a hijabi wife, but don't grow beards themselves. if you want a virgin wife, maybe you should stop fuckin' around.

it's all hypocrisy ...

...

TheReturn · 03-15-2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alias3000

And ^ this is the attitude I come across when discussing this issue with Muslm men., most of your are sick. Aisha was 9 when Muhammed raped her. shame on him for that.

and Muslims seek violence as the FIRST option when trying to chastize their women. you can't make me believe that it was OK to behead that beautiful woman at that TV station. you will NOT make believe that a public execution of Muslim woman(shot in the head with an AK) for wanting to leave her husband was fair treatment...SAVE THAT SHIT!

Muslim Men, historically, are the sons of Ishmael, who was the bastard child of Abraham's one-night stand with his mistress Hagar. TRUTH!

It says in the Bible(will post verse later), that God gave power unto Ishmael and Issac(Abraham's son with his wife Sarah), but it was different powwers. Ishmael's power is rooted in the nature of the "wild man". He gave birth to a "warlike" people, Zealots, if you will, with no regard for human life. just a misguided zeal for what they "think" is right. that's a perfect description of the Muslim. they believe in "submission" by any means neccessary. and what is the definition of Islam - submission. TRUTH!

So again I ask, why does the Qu'ran support or turn the other cheek when their women are brutally slaughtered for the most stupidest shit by their Men?

The Bible teaches us that if you don't want your woman, you divorce(leave) her. and keep it moving. not stab her to death or behead her for not wanting to stay with your sorry ass!

I've never read the Bible, but I highly doubt that it teaches or condones divorce.

I've also never read the Qu'ran, but I highly doubt that it teaches or condones turning a cheek to brutal slaughter of women.

Honestly, there's radicals in every religion. Scripture can be taken and twisted to mean anything you want it to. It's dangerous, which is why I don't believe in religion, but do believe in a "God" and also believe that religion shouldn't be spread, but rather discovered individually.

As for the story of Abraham, it's from the Torah, which is Jewish. So saying that Muslims are the sons of Ishmael, or bastard children of a Jewish man's affair with a mistress is a little bit biased, don't you think? And characterizing them as wild and warlike based on that bias is pretty stupid too, don't you think?

I don't know much at all about the Qu'ran, so I have no idea who Aisha is. Do you think you could clear it up, Nu'maan?

reggie_jax · 03-15-2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nu'maaN

^ true.

hypocrites. fuck 'em. can't stand 'em.

muslim men these days want a hijabi wife, but don't grow beards themselves. if you want a virgin wife, maybe you should stop fuckin' around.

it's all hypocrisy ...

...

is there some sort of religious significance to the beards? i always thought it was a fashion statement

Nu'maaN · 03-16-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReturn

... and also believe that religion shouldn't be spread, but rather discovered individually.

i have been challenged by many of my own faith for believing in this. let the person in question live, and learn for himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReturn

I don't know much at all about the Qu'ran, so I have no idea who Aisha is. Do you think you could clear it up, Nu'maan?

i don't think Aisha was mentioned in the Qur'an, i could be wrong. however, to clear things up for you, Aisha was the daughter of Abu Bakr, who was the closest companion of the Prophet Muhammad. Abu Bakr became the first caliphate of islam after the death of the Prophet.

there is speculation about Prophet Muhammad marrying Aisha at the age of 6, but it has been proven that she was engaged at the age of 9, and married off at 15 or 16. you guys can think what you want of this, but i know for a fact that there are girls in villages that mature alot earlier than girls elsewhere. with that said, you can research on Aisha yourself, just look for Aisha bint Abu Bakr.

she was known to have the best memory and exceptional judgement of situations. but i will let you make your own picture after reading about her. i'd tell you more, but in a forum where users do not respect other's religion, i'd rather not get worked up for no reason. 'nah mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by reggie_jax

is there some sort of religious significance to the beards? i always thought it was a fashion statement

lol @ fashion statement, anything but haha.

but yeah, it's encouraged in islam to grow a beard because the Prophet Muhammad himself donned one. it is in tradition of following the Prophet's ways that we grow beards, but it isn't as significant as other laws in islam. i, myself do not have a beard for many reasons.

1. i'll end up looking like bin laden.
2. i'm no way near the status of being a good muslim. so if i had a beard, whatever i do will be associated with my deen (religion). so until i change my ways completely, i will not even think about it.

a beard signifies a good muslim. but recent times, especially in pakistan, the sheikhs or maulvis are actually looked down upon because of their actions while having a beard. they make me sick to my stomach, some of them.

ah well ...

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reggie_jax · 03-16-2009, 02:14 AM

it can get confusing cause in america a beard usually signifies a lack of a home and an alcohol problem.

.:Pain:. · 03-16-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

this, again is religous leaders taking shit out of context. it might sound like a cliche, but it shouldn't be like that at all. yeah, you should cover yourself infront of those who are prospects for marriage, but not covering shouldn't lead to stoning. the Prophet never stoned a woman for not covering.

True, but, and I'm probably mistaken about this this, but isn't stoning to death listed as the proper punishment in the Qur'ran?

Quote:

you found one fault on the Prophet Muhammad. Aisha. she was not 8. it's been misunderstood on a major level. but if you want to believe it, go for it. doesn't bother me in the least.

lol, So enlighten me then. Explain to me how that's exactly what it says in the Qur'ran, but somehow I'm wrong.

Quote:

and as for forcing submission on the people, the Prophet Muhammad was all about moderation. "there should be no extremities in religion", but as i said earlier, believe what you may. atleast you argue on a mature level.

In the beginning of his spiritual journey, yes. Then he began to become jaded by the fact that he was not accepted in Judaism, stopped praying towards Jerusalem and started praying towards Mecca...

Alias3000 · 03-16-2009, 05:11 PM

Finally, a Muslim that dares to debate me...let's go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nu'maaN

how can you ask such a stupid question without even attempting to read the Qu'ran in the first place.

I've read quite a bit of it, as I was almost ready to join the nation when I was 21.

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to answer your question, no. the Qur'an doesn't promote this behaviour.

fair enough. so where in the Qu'ran do the radical Muslims get this, because I can't find it anywhere in the qu'ran. are you saying they are just mad men?

Quote:

if anything, islam was bought in at a time where they were burying their women in arab lands. islam stopped this inhumane act. this extreme behaviour is more cultural than anything.

"They" were Muslims, who were burying their women dog. whoever stopped it did a good thing, but you gotta realize, "they" were Arab Muslims who were doing this.

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emales are encouraged to go to school, gain an education.

prove it. are there any high-rankning Muslim women that hold high positions in Islamic governments? I'd like to read up on some of them.

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the only reason they wear clothes that don't define their body structure is not to tempt other men. if you have something valuable you cover it, we value our sisters.

they are forced to wear that. they are not encouraged. death becomes them if they disobey that law of the land.

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i, myself haven't read anywhere in the Qur'an or Hadith (sayings of the Prophet) where it is made obligatory on the woman to cover their full body in the burqah (the ninja outfit), but it has been stated to wear clothes that do not define the body structure of the female.

it's based on control. how can a man be attracted to a women if he can't see her body? arranged marriages?

Quote:

all that honour killing shit is ridiculous and is condemned in islam. it's against every aspect of the religion.

So where are all the Moderate Muslims condemning it? most of them are scared shitless and won't dare speak out against the radicals.

yall don't realize that the radical Muslims give Islam as a whole a bad name? So what are you doing about it as a Muslim society? you're not thrwoing them in prison that's for sure, you're not doing shit, really.

Quote:

go. i know you're gonna come at me with some ignorant bullshit, but if you want to discuss maturely, i will try my best to answer your queries or comments.

you guys thank god for internet message forums, coz i know in real life you cunts won't dare utter shit against islam infront of a muslim.

cowards ...

...

not a damn thing ignorant about my approach. I'm just fact-finding. don't get mad, get informed. and I question Muslims all the time face-to-face and they ain't done/gone do shit. most of them tune me out and walk off because they don't wanna discuss it. I guess those are the scary Muslims that are too afraid to confront the radical ones.

Alias3000 · 03-16-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reggie_jax

is there some sort of religious significance to the beards? i always thought it was a fashion statement

From what I know, the beard symbolizes strength and power. the bigger the beard the more respect they get. even the red turban and white turbans symbolizes strength and leadership. not just to tuck away their hair.

Alias3000 · 03-16-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nu'maaN

there is speculation about Prophet Muhammad marrying Aisha at the age of 6, but it has been proven that she was engaged at the age of 9, and married off at 15 or 16. you guys can think what you want of this, but i know for a fact that there are girls in villages that mature alot earlier than girls elsewhere. with that said, you can research on Aisha yourself, just look for Aisha bint Abu Bakr.

so that makes it ok? PEDOFILE Muhammed was.

Quote:

but yeah, it's encouraged in islam to grow a beard because the Prophet Muhammad himself donned one. it is in tradition of following the Prophet's ways that we grow beards, but it isn't as significant as other laws in islam. i, myself do not have a beard for many reasons.

Quote:

a beard signifies a good muslim. but recent times, especially in pakistan, the sheikhs or maulvis are actually looked down upon because of their actions while having a beard. they make me sick to my stomach, some of them.
...

You need to study more. the beard has a definite significance.

a "good" Muslim..haha..more like a good "warrior" Muslim.

Nu'maaN · 03-16-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reggie_jax

it can get confusing cause in america a beard usually signifies a lack of a home and an alcohol problem.

hahahahaha, funny man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:Pain:.

True, but, and I'm probably mistaken about this this, but isn't stoning to death listed as the proper punishment in the Qur'ran?

no where in the Qur'an does it say you should stone the woman for not covering. the only close punishment to "stoning" is that if someone has commited adultery. even then it doesn't say stone to death. i'll quote:

24: 2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or
fornication, -- flog each of them with a hundred stripes; Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day.

no mention of stoning to death there. it's true, the Prophet did carry out a stoning to death, BEFORE the revelation of Surat-al-Nur in the Qur'an. there is no way he would dictate his own laws that would conflict with that of Allah's. however, after the Surah in question was revealed, there was no more stoning to death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:Pain:.

lol, So enlighten me then. Explain to me how that's exactly what it says in the Qur'ran, but somehow I'm wrong.

you say she's 8. she was engaged at 9, and married off at 16, when she had matured enough. you cannot go on calling the Prophet a pedophile before reading the definition of a pedophile.

"Pedophile: also spelled PEDOPHILIA, psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical pedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult." Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998.

the Prophet does not fit this criteria. the statistics (on his wives) show that the Prophet’s marriage to Aisha at her young age was an exception and not a norm of his other marriages.

but seriously, pain, i want you to read the book Muhammad by Martin Lings. just read it and tell me what you think of the Prophet afterwards. deal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:Pain:.

In the beginning of his spiritual journey, yes. Then he began to become jaded by the fact that he was not accepted in Judaism, stopped praying towards Jerusalem and started praying towards Mecca...

he was accepted by some top rabbis who denied him being the final Prophet in fear of losing their status amongst their own people. lol at becoming jaded due to unacceptance. if this was the case, the Prophet would've stopped fasting the day of Ashura (a day of fasting for the jews) aswell, but he fasted that day until the very last.

the change of the Qiblah was, in my opinion, restored to the original mosque that was built by Prophet Abraham. they couldn't turn towards that and pray in the beginning because of all the idols within it.

edit ; i will answer Alias in the next post, due to the limit on words you can type ...

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