Sigmund Freud (1929) Civilization and Its Discontents

Brit Boi Gee · 05-26-2007, 10:15 PM

ok I tried to break this down into one small bitesize read (will take you less than a minute) if u are interested

'Civilisation' describes the whole sum of the achievements and the regulations which distinguish our lives from those of our animal ancestors.

use of tools, gaining control over fire (Comte said this too) and the construction of dwellings.

Motor power places gigantic forces at mans disposal, thanks to ships and aircraft neither water nor air can hinder his movements.

Today he has come close to his ideal, he has almost becomea god himself

We soon observe (pots of flowers etc) these useless things which we expect civilisation to value is beauty.

we expect to see signs of cleanliness and order, Dirtiness of any kind seems to us imcompatable with civilization. We extend our demand of cleaniliness to the human body too. We set up soap as the yardstick of civilisation.

But whereas cleanliness is not to be expected in nature, order on the contrary, has been imitated from her.

Order? On the contrary, human beings exhibit an inborn tendency to carelessness, ireegularity and unreliability in their work.

mark of Civilisation, regulating social relationships. Sacrafice of of their instincts,renunciation of instinct(suppression repression of powerful instincts this 'cultural frustration' dominates the large field of social relationships between human beings.

Human life in common is only made possible when a majority comes together which is stronger than any seperate individual.

This replacement of power of the individual by the power of by the power of the individual constitutes the decisive step of civilisation.

The first requisite of civilisation, therfore is that of justice, the assurance that once a law is made it will not be broken in favour of the individual.This implies nothing as to the ethical value value of such a law.

menaz · 05-27-2007, 06:11 AM

"Today he has come close to his ideal, he has almost becomea god himself

We soon observe (pots of flowers etc) these useless things which we expect civilisation to value is beauty.

we expect to see signs of cleanliness and order, Dirtiness of any kind seems to us imcompatable with civilization. We extend our demand of cleaniliness to the human body too. We set up soap as the yardstick of civilisation.

But whereas cleanliness is not to be expected in nature, order on the contrary, has been imitated from her.

Order? On the contrary, human beings exhibit an inborn tendency to carelessness, ireegularity and unreliability in their work.

mark of Civilisation, regulating social relationships. Sacrafice of of their instincts,renunciation of instinct(suppression repression of powerful instincts this 'cultural frustration' dominates the large field of social relationships between human beings.

Human life in common is only made possible when a majority comes together which is stronger than any seperate individual."

loved this part.

Sigmund Freud was a smart man. Good read.

identity-X · 05-27-2007, 02:23 PM

I read this in my Social Theory class during my very first semester of grad school...

...honestly, I hardly remember any of it.

identity-X · 05-27-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by menaz

loved this part.

Sigmund Freud was a smart man. Good read.

freud is talking about social influence, social structure, and the way the social world mediates "instinct"/"biology"/"genetics"/etc and menaz says he's on board?

never thought I'd see you agreeing with such a stance...

Ratiko Malodic · 05-28-2007, 08:29 AM

...stop baiting Riz.

We all know only Riz knows about sociologists and philosophers etc. Everyone else is just pretending.

PassTheMic · 05-28-2007, 09:25 PM

Man that is a good read, a real insightful book

Riz · 05-29-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratiko Malodic

...stop baiting Riz.

We all know only Riz knows about sociologists and philosophers etc. Everyone else is just pretending.

Instead of thowing the odd little comment out, why don't you actually debate me on the subject of psychology? I double dare you, sparky.

See, my problem isn't that you're obviously trying to 'bait' me; it's that you're doing such a bad job of it. I haven't been in a serious 'beef' with someone for aaaages. I thought you'd bring the goods and be a worthy opponent. Clearly I was mistaken, and stupidly thought you was better at this shit than you actually are.

lmao @ your BBGesque misunderstandings.

Brit Boi Gee · 05-29-2007, 10:33 AM

oi, why you bringing me into this?

anything which is bbgesque isn't misunderstood, ask around.

you misunderstand me though, for whatever reason

Riz · 05-29-2007, 10:48 AM

I'm never sure what to make of you. That reply^, for example, I like. Other times, you're so clueless I'm not sure if it's all just an act.

Malo disappoints me though. He gasses himself up so much, but it's just hype. He talks about the damage he's done in the past and I always assumed I just missed it cuz I never used to post in the Alley. He's now proven it was all a load of bullshit. I'd love for him to actually try and take me on, and he can see if I'm just building myself up.

Ratiko Malodic · 05-29-2007, 10:48 AM

I'm not sure how to reply, because I've really come to an abrupt conclusion it's me that's invested too much into you. You see, I thought you were baiting me, but now I'm not so sure. You're not one to make such an obvious ironic statement, so I'm now believing you're scared of me.

The argument isn't my 'baiting' because we both know I don't bait people. We both know my light hearted remarks are nothing more sinister than a harmless quip. We both also know I've clearly stepped on your toes over the 'weak minded' and the fallacy of suicide.

Which brings us to the real argument. Why are you holding back? I don't believe any longer that you don't consider me worthy, because your presence remains key on certain posts I make. You clearly fancy a bit of Malo and Riz, and I don't think you're trying to bait me, any longer.

I think it's become a case of insecurity because standing up for what you believe in isn't beef and you continue to argue with other people over more trivial things and your personal belief.

Ratiko Malodic · 05-29-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riz

I'm never sure what to make of you. That reply^, for example, I like. Other times, you're so clueless I'm not sure if it's all just an act.

Malo disappoints me though. He gasses himself up so much, but it's just hype. He talks about the damage he's done in the past and I always assumed I just missed it cuz I never used to post in the Alley. He's now proven it was all a load of bullshit. I'd love for him to actually try and take me on, and he can see if I'm just building myself up.

Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe you're not scared. Maybe you think if you keep baiting me, I'll bite. I guess that would make more sense, seeing the insults pick up momentum the longer I refuse to bitch with you.

I've already stepped on your toes and you're still yet to respond. I wouldn't even be making the light hearted remarks if your irrefutable presence and elitist crap was absent from my threads and replies.

It's your move Riz. It has been from the start.

Ratiko Malodic · 05-29-2007, 11:11 AM

edit:

lol, I just saw the ''I wasn't here'' excuse. Yes you were, you've just never been on the other side.

The bottom line is, I said some serious shit about certain elemts of pyschology and you wont reply to it. Even though the comment in Double's thread wasn't about you, you still couldn't argue your point. Instead, talking about Nislanif. I think the best you did do, was tell me to argue about fucking theory that was irrelivant to my point.

Now all your picking up on my obviously light hearted remarks as if I'm scared to argue? It's your toes that got trod on, you fucking make the rebuttle.

I'm done with the bitching, because your honestly boring. It's not you. I only replied because I once thought that much of you. Until your ready to make a serious objection to one of my OPINIONS, bye mate.

Riz · 05-29-2007, 11:54 AM

I just realised how fitting it is that we're doing this under the heading "Civilization and its Discontents"

Quote:

We both also know I've clearly stepped on your toes over the 'weak minded' and the fallacy of suicide.

The weak minded comment? Possibly. The suicide argument? Not even close.

Quote:

because your presence remains key on certain posts I make

Quote:

if your irrefutable presence and elitist crap was absent from my threads and replies

And then...

Quote:

(Paraphrasing from before the edit) There's only one thread we've had a disagreement in

Make your mind up.

And post the proof that I'm following you around. I had no way of knowing you posted in this thread, and you made a comment about me.

Quote:

I've already stepped on your toes and you're still yet to respond

What is it that I haven't responded to?

Quote:

I just re-read the ''I wasn't around'' excuse

lol, an excuse for what? I spent my first few years on RM exclusively in HHC and Introspectrum, so it's either a case of I missed it, or you're not nearly as good as you claim.

Quote:

This one stems from you interoperating something I said as an attack. Yet you said fuck all about it and made the argument INSTANTLY about Nislanif and then walked off. I believe you actually agreed with the more serious point I made though.

The double ML thread? I misinterpreted that at first but when you said the comment wasn't about me I dropped it.

But it comes down to this. You're the one that name drops me with your "light hearted" comments, you're the one that talks sideways in random threads about me... and now you're trying to turn it around and pretend it was me starting something.

I've already told you what my intentions are: "I haven't been in a serious 'beef' with someone for aaaages and I thought you'd bring the goods." That's all it is. You haven't stood on my toes because there's one point that you can't accept: anything you can say bad about psychology I have thought myself, and will probabaly agree with you on half of it. I know ALL the problems with psychology, nigga. I done argued them to people I know taking the same course.

So now that it's established it's not because you've got a problem with what I'm studying, maybe it's just a case of genuinely disliking each other and this just brought it out?

Riz · 05-29-2007, 12:30 PM

You know what, let's just drop it. I think we've both been misinterpreting each other, and I haven't got time in the next couple of week sto be doing the old back and forth for 4 pages.

Maybe another time.

05-26-2007, 10:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
Brit Boi Gee manifest the zen Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Near To Athena Posts: 15,870	Sigmund Freud (1929) Civilization and Its Discontents ok I tried to break this down into one small bitesize read (will take you less than a minute) if u are interested 'Civilisation' describes the whole sum of the achievements and the regulations which distinguish our lives from those of our animal ancestors. use of tools, gaining control over fire (Comte said this too) and the construction of dwellings. Motor power places gigantic forces at mans disposal, thanks to ships and aircraft neither water nor air can hinder his movements. Today he has come close to his ideal, he has almost becomea god himself We soon observe (pots of flowers etc) these useless things which we expect civilisation to value is beauty. we expect to see signs of cleanliness and order, Dirtiness of any kind seems to us imcompatable with civilization. We extend our demand of cleaniliness to the human body too. We set up soap as the yardstick of civilisation. But whereas cleanliness is not to be expected in nature, order on the contrary, has been imitated from her. Order? On the contrary, human beings exhibit an inborn tendency to carelessness, ireegularity and unreliability in their work. mark of Civilisation, regulating social relationships. Sacrafice of of their instincts,renunciation of instinct(suppression repression of powerful instincts this 'cultural frustration' dominates the large field of social relationships between human beings. Human life in common is only made possible when a majority comes together which is stronger than any seperate individual. This replacement of power of the individual by the power of by the power of the individual constitutes the decisive step of civilisation. The first requisite of civilisation, therfore is that of justice, the assurance that once a law is made it will not be broken in favour of the individual.This implies nothing as to the ethical value value of such a law. __________________ childhood, when nothing happened to us except what happens to things and creatures: we lived their world as something human, and became filled to the brim with figures. -Rainer Maria Rilke Brit Boi has a highly calibrated wifermometer Last edited by Brit Boi Gee; 05-26-2007 at 10:20 PM.

05-27-2007, 06:11 AM	#2 (permalink)
menaz Nomenklatura демокр Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: ST.Louis, Mo. Posts: 16,802	"Today he has come close to his ideal, he has almost becomea god himself We soon observe (pots of flowers etc) these useless things which we expect civilisation to value is beauty. we expect to see signs of cleanliness and order, Dirtiness of any kind seems to us imcompatable with civilization. We extend our demand of cleaniliness to the human body too. We set up soap as the yardstick of civilisation. But whereas cleanliness is not to be expected in nature, order on the contrary, has been imitated from her. Order? On the contrary, human beings exhibit an inborn tendency to carelessness, ireegularity and unreliability in their work. mark of Civilisation, regulating social relationships. Sacrafice of of their instincts,renunciation of instinct(suppression repression of powerful instincts this 'cultural frustration' dominates the large field of social relationships between human beings. Human life in common is only made possible when a majority comes together which is stronger than any seperate individual." loved this part. Sigmund Freud was a smart man. Good read. __________________ "Spending for the common good" is not equitable to "spreading the wealth." Taxation for spending for the common good is paying a fee for services rendered. For example, I pay a tax and I get military/police/fire protection, infrastructure improvements, and mail services. Taxation for spreading the wealth is paying a fee for no services rendered. For example, I pay a tax and it goes in the form of a check to someone who pays no taxes.-menaz The Communist Manifesto's second plank is, "A heavy progressive or graduated income tax."-Marx & Engles http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3357 January 20th, 2009. A date which will live in infamy.

05-27-2007, 02:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
identity-X No Talent Assclown Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: over the rainbow Posts: 13,096	I read this in my Social Theory class during my very first semester of grad school... ...honestly, I hardly remember any of it. __________________ Check out reviews (or provide your own!) of the latest and greatest albums hip hop albums in the... USER REVIEWS FORUM

05-28-2007, 08:29 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ratiko Malodic Hispanic Bitchm0nkey Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Wales Posts: 35,972	...stop baiting Riz. We all know only Riz knows about sociologists and philosophers etc. Everyone else is just pretending. __________________ fuck it

05-29-2007, 10:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
Brit Boi Gee manifest the zen Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Near To Athena Posts: 15,870	oi, why you bringing me into this? anything which is bbgesque isn't misunderstood, ask around. you misunderstand me though, for whatever reason __________________ childhood, when nothing happened to us except what happens to things and creatures: we lived their world as something human, and became filled to the brim with figures. -Rainer Maria Rilke Brit Boi has a highly calibrated wifermometer

05-28-2007, 09:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
PassTheMic Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dirty Jerz Posts: 15	Man that is a good read, a real insightful book

05-29-2007, 10:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
Riz Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: On the road to Rishikesh Posts: 6,641	I'm never sure what to make of you. That reply^, for example, I like. Other times, you're so clueless I'm not sure if it's all just an act. Malo disappoints me though. He gasses himself up so much, but it's just hype. He talks about the damage he's done in the past and I always assumed I just missed it cuz I never used to post in the Alley. He's now proven it was all a load of bullshit. I'd love for him to actually try and take me on, and he can see if I'm just building myself up.

05-29-2007, 10:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ratiko Malodic Hispanic Bitchm0nkey Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Wales Posts: 35,972	I'm not sure how to reply, because I've really come to an abrupt conclusion it's me that's invested too much into you. You see, I thought you were baiting me, but now I'm not so sure. You're not one to make such an obvious ironic statement, so I'm now believing you're scared of me. The argument isn't my 'baiting' because we both know I don't bait people. We both know my light hearted remarks are nothing more sinister than a harmless quip. We both also know I've clearly stepped on your toes over the 'weak minded' and the fallacy of suicide. Which brings us to the real argument. Why are you holding back? I don't believe any longer that you don't consider me worthy, because your presence remains key on certain posts I make. You clearly fancy a bit of Malo and Riz, and I don't think you're trying to bait me, any longer. I think it's become a case of insecurity because standing up for what you believe in isn't beef and you continue to argue with other people over more trivial things and your personal belief. __________________ fuck it

05-29-2007, 11:11 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ratiko Malodic Hispanic Bitchm0nkey Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Wales Posts: 35,972	edit: lol, I just saw the ''I wasn't here'' excuse. Yes you were, you've just never been on the other side. The bottom line is, I said some serious shit about certain elemts of pyschology and you wont reply to it. Even though the comment in Double's thread wasn't about you, you still couldn't argue your point. Instead, talking about Nislanif. I think the best you did do, was tell me to argue about fucking theory that was irrelivant to my point. Now all your picking up on my obviously light hearted remarks as if I'm scared to argue? It's your toes that got trod on, you fucking make the rebuttle. I'm done with the bitching, because your honestly boring. It's not you. I only replied because I once thought that much of you. Until your ready to make a serious objection to one of my OPINIONS, bye mate. __________________ fuck it Last edited by Ratiko Malodic; 05-29-2007 at 11:31 AM.

05-29-2007, 12:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
Riz Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: On the road to Rishikesh Posts: 6,641	You know what, let's just drop it. I think we've both been misinterpreting each other, and I haven't got time in the next couple of week sto be doing the old back and forth for 4 pages. Maybe another time.

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