Democracy . . .

[Brit Boi Gee]

saying you created the whole thing to create conflict and nothing more is a great backtracking device for a thread thats gone tits up

[Anidawehi]

Backpeddling

And it honestly doesn't matter if you believe I plan this or not. I tell you people that I'm going to do it, then I do it, then I tell you that I've been doing it and you say I'm backpeddling. Whatever . . . believe whatever you want. It's clear this method is not working. Maybe I'll change up my method. We'll see.

But the point was made in the last reply #40.

[Anidawehi]

Originally Posted by Anidawehi

How many people realize that from Jefferson to Adams the Democrats and Republicans were the same party which competed against the Federalists? After that the Democrats took the lead. Then the Whigs began gaining votes and it was between Democrats and Whigs. Suddenly the Democrats (who were also republicans) branched off into two divisions and Andrew Johnson was the LAST non "Democrat-Republican" to become a president.

Is this a fucking coincidence?
How stupid does a person have to be to not see the pattern?
Do I need to give visual aids?

(I just googled this and edited to add it. It's a shitty site, I know but you can see the pattern here so it will suffice):
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/his...res/list.shtml


If we live in a democracy then WHY don't all the votes count?
Many people who don't like Republicans or Democrats will vote Democrat simply because they want their vote to count. They know that if they vote for who they want in office (if that person isn't a Republican or Democrat) that they don't have a chance in hell of winning. So voting for our leader has become a goddamn game and divides the nation completely in half.

This is not Democracy.
I don't know what a person needs to see the truth . . . it sure seems clear enough to me. But hey, some people are in denial I guess.

Now, ask yourself this. People with Felonies are not permitted to leave the United States. Why? How does them leaving the U.S. affect the United States? We can ONLY have this answer when we ask the next question.
Can people with felonies vote?
The answer is no, they cannot.
So they can't vote and they can't leave.
That's a slave.
Do it over a long enough period of time and what do you have?

You end up with Tyranny under the guise of Democracy.
Mental and Physical slavery.
Undying loyalty to the "Master"

But hey, what do I know . . . I'm just a CT, right?

In case you missed it

[McGirth]

didn't you see star wars? :P

you can't strip people of their right to vote or they will revolt, you have to get them to willingly give it away.


According to many scholars/historians on the development of democracy - universal enfranchisement brought with it politics for hte masses. I.E. Image politics where politicians appeal to the lowest common denominator. TV only exacerbated this problem.

I remember hearing on The Daily Show John Stewart complaining about how in the old days politicians used to give 2 hour intellectual discourses on topics instead of just repeating buzzwords. Mind you, John Stewart dosen't give 2 hour long discourses either - he IS apart of buzzword politics.

The reality is that today that sort of 2 hour logically deductive discourse would have you lose the election.

the Rise of the Party system is also tied to mass enfranchisement. The argument goes something along the lines that since candidates don't get most of their votes by acutally meeting people (like in the old days), but rather through advertisements - a party system is much more effective in winning seats. Its almost impossible to win in a mass enfranchised election without belonging to a major party.


I think personally each system has its advantages/disadvantages. Sometimes when we switch systems we throw the baby out with the bathwater. Sometimes the 2 neccesarily slip out together. But basically their is no perfect system.

I think a good question to ask is is the political system sustainable in the long run? i think the answer today is no.

In the same way that it is argued that we have unsustainable environmental policy, we have unsustainable political policy.

Something WILL give/change - we can either steer change or we can let it steer us.

[Anidawehi]

No, I've never seen Star Wars. Among the few movies I haven't seen.

As for the rest of your reply . . .
I agree with you. We can't throw it all out at once (it does have to gradually be replaced) [that means maybe 20-30 years. It really isn't as difficult as people make it sound. The elite are working toward a unified world. The united world IS the ideal goal. There are numerous benefits to it. The problem is that it will be a unified world which THEY control. The system should be set up in a manner in which NOBODY or NO GROUP controls it. Total power corrupts totally and therefore the system MUST be completely Decentralized in EVERY way. The world will continue to get more and more superficial (through their methods of psychological conditioning) and once completed it will be impossible to change because they will continue to build more and more walls throughout the system. Everything will have to be bought through credits and that will make it impossible to rebel against them if they can access your banking information.

We gotta wake up now.
Otherwise it will be too late.

[Sodium]

Originally Posted by McGirth

I think a good question to ask is is the political system sustainable in the long run? i think the answer today is no.

wehy you say that?

[UnbrokeN]

i dont wanna waste my time reading al l of this..but from what ive read azue is completely right with his thoughts about democracy. its an illusion. the elites are the puppeteers chosing their puppets (politicians) and make them dance accordingly to their desires. democracy is a hoax. democracy is nothing but covered up capitalism, all of the major parties in the western hermisphere are supported by the media( who in return is in the hands of the elites). they make sure who gets elected plays for their team. any american or german or whatever western president plays on their team. the media only focuses on the major parties, in america its two parties, in germany its a few more but basically two major parties as well. it doesnt matter who gets elected, the candidates for presidency and the other high rank offices have all been chosen and approved off by a shadow league of powerful economy men. democracy means the people rule, when they dont. they elect someoen who rules for them and the people can do nothign about it, because theres usually a huge military or police system behind those elected. so unless you form a secret underground resitance army and plan a coup (which is almost impossible in the west), you wont get far with your revolution. its such a sophisticated powerful agenda running the west, basically the world...

[menaz]

And I suppose they must stay that way too?

You want utopia. I however recognize Utopia does not exist.
I live in the real world. without choas nothing evolves.
Energy to Unvierse. m.onkeys to man. little Ice age to Industrialzation.
Industrialzation to global warming.

The fact is your like every little stupid hippie I ever met.
You want to bring change, but you don't want to change it yourself.
All you want to do is bitch and complain your opinion.

You and Double live in your own fuckin realities, I swear.
You have NEVER made me look stupid.
You have lost EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT between you and I.
You're just too stubborn or ignorant (or both) to realize it.

Oh I see, I compared you to double ML once so now you have to reciprocate(only your comparsion makes no sense.) Actually I did make you look stupid. All your arguments are stupid. You lose every argument with everyone you get in (hence, why you are name calling). You think you win but you are a fool. What's worse is you don't recognize you're a fool. understand, the Ignorant person is you. You're the fool that will keep coming though he has been shut down. That is how you operate. I'm stubborn and ignorant? I Don't think so. I think your nothing more than a CT, You throw out a few lines of bullshit and hope it sticks.

Sure thing, ML.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. All your arguments go off topic.
This is because you are a FUCKING RETARD.

I already acknowledged that they are Americans. But they do not represent "THE PEOPLE" . . .

correction, now you acknowledged they're americans.

Stop fucking ignoring what I'm saying.
You reply to shit I'm not saying and ignore the shit I do say.
Are you on dope? How the fuck are you arriving at some of the conclusions you're getting? I NEVER said that they weren't American Citizens or Part of American Society. Goddamn kid, if you're going to debate then fuckin read what is being said to you and stop making shit up.

You ask stupid Questions that are irrelveant. I don't reply to stupid ass questions. There is no LAW that says I have to ANSWER YOU. And Lastly, Wrong, that is exactly what what you did.

I know you didn't just call politicians "innocent blood"
Please tell me that you didn't say that.

This is what I am talking about. You have no comprehension skills.
I'm saying you attack innocent people, It doesn't matter what label
they fall under, if they go against how you think even INNOCENTLY they
must DIE. That is how you operate. You want everyone to think and be like you. You want to rule over the people who are not like you. You want to deny them any right to speak up against you. Therefore, You're no better than the people you want to oust. This is common among dictator personalities. In the end the dictators turn out to be narcissistic, less tolerant, Lairs, and promise breakers. It's a Human flaw within us all. And Humans are not good creatures. Thats not Human nature. When a human is Good that's going against human nature.

Even IF that were true (and it is not), you of all people are in no position to use it in an argument.

it's true. Stop LYING. And I will bring it up every time you talk shit to me.
What argument? The argument has been over.

I came to college for the first (and only) time last year.
This is my third semester and I have a 4.0 GPA. I have NEVER failed a single class or dropped out.

Not what I heard. Also heard you dropped out the army because you couldn't hack it.

Where did you get this from?
Stop MAKING SHIT UP!
You automatically admit defeat when you start lying about the other person.

You had the emotional outbrust first.
And No You lost the Argument because you attacked me first.

Of course I understood you were being sardonic.

No you didn't understand.

What is the argument, Menaz?
You don't even remember.
We're talking about Democracy.

You choose to answer my Post on demcracy. My first post is the argument.
Do you remember the Argument? Obviously not, which is why you
commited Ad hominem fallacies to cover up how uncomperhensive
you are.

"Nosense" is not a word.
"No sense" is two seperate words combined to form a coherent thought.

nonsense.

"Mail" = letters. packages.

"male" = A guy. A man.

Got it cup cake?

What am I paranoid of?

Not that this has anything to do with the conversation.
but you do have Bush Derangement Syndrome.

I know you'll have to google it.

Telling me I am insignificant = Your opinion
Calling me a parasite = Personal Attack (Fallacy of argument)

After you commited attacks first. you're gonna bring this up?LOL The argument has been over. I'm calling you names. Wake up! Plus it's what you are. You feed off the host providing. and you are insignificant. Nothing you say matters in the grand scheme of things.

Oh yea, Obama is tackling Aids?

I said Obama is tackling aids. And he is.

Why you feelt to question that shows how stupid you are.

[menaz]

In a more positive vein, the restoration of voting rights can be seen as being in harmony with the rehabilitative goal of sentencing. If an objective of sentencing is to encourage offenders to become less antisocial, then it is in society's interest to engage offenders in productive relationships with the community. Voting is clearly one means of doing so.



If someone is convicted of a felony and they have the choice between Disenfranchisement without prison time (meaning: probation for a felony) they will go with the disenfranchisement. It's funny to me people say voting doesn't matter because some Shadowy figure preplains the elections, yet these same people bitch and complain about convicted felons not having the right to vote.

State by State Disenfranchisement is dissimilar. e.i. Not all alike.

[Anidawehi]

Originally Posted by menaz

You want utopia. I however recognize Utopia does not exist.
I live in the real world. without choas nothing evolves.
Energy to Unvierse. m.onkeys to man. little Ice age to Industrialzation.
Industrialzation to global warming.

The fact is your like every little stupid hippie I ever met.
You want to bring change, but you don't want to change it yourself.
All you want to do is bitch and complain your opinion.

Utopia does exist. It is in the mind of each and every one of us. It just won't exist externally. I'm not fighting for a political Utopia. I'm not speaking for a political Utopia. There will never be a perfect world. There will always be chaos. Those who cannot adapt to the chaos want to stop the chaos and that's impossible. I understand that. That doesn't mean we should be slaves to the elite. There's a huge difference between Utopia and a world without slaves and masters. That world is possible. Utopia is not.

Oh, and I'm not a Hippie. Stop labeling people. You've been conditioned by society to categorize everybody. The problem with that is it blinds you to who you're really dealing with and it divides everybody from everybody else. Mankind cannot thrive in a world that is completely and utterly divided in his mind. The world is not divided.

I want to bring about change and I will bring about change when the time arrives.
I'm just sorting out my thoughts through the sieve that is RM in the mean time.

Oh I see, I compared you to double ML once so now you have to reciprocate(only your comparsion makes no sense.) Actually I did make you look stupid. All your arguments are stupid. You lose every argument with everyone you get in (hence, why you are name calling).

So let me get this straight, I lost because I was calling you names.
Yet you win, and you're also calling me names?
Beautiful logic.

Nobody won.
Nobody lost.
There was never anything to be gained, Menaz.
We do this dance of ours every couple weeks.
Then we go back to being social.
Then we wind up back here.
Then we go back to being social.

Let's try the adult route for a while.
See how it works out.

You think you win but you are a fool. What's worse is you don't recognize you're a fool. understand, the Ignorant person is you. You're the fool that will keep coming though he has been shut down. That is how you operate. I'm stubborn and ignorant? I Don't think so. I think your nothing more than a CT, You throw out a few lines of bullshit and hope it sticks.

You know . . . when you write something like this ^ immediately following something like this: "You lose every argument with everyone you get in (hence, why you are name calling)" . . . it makes you look like the loser (according to your own standard.)

Like I said, nobody won . . . nobody lost. There was nothing to be gained. We're not even on the subject anymore.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. All your arguments go off topic.
This is because you are a FUCKING RETARD.

So far you have said nothing outside of "personal attacks" and "name calling" in this reply.

Odd, wasn't that how you determined who the loser is?

correction, now you acknowledged they're americans.

What did I say they were before? I never said they weren't Americans. If I did, you should be able to quote me and show me where I said it.

You ask stupid Questions that are irrelveant. I don't reply to stupid ass questions. There is no LAW that says I have to ANSWER YOU. And Lastly, Wrong, that is exactly what what you did.

Another personal attack (name calling) and completely irrelevant to the topic being discussed.

This is what I am talking about. You have no comprehension skills.
I'm saying you attack innocent people

Name 2 innocent people whom I have attacked. You said "people" and that is plural so there MUST be at least two.

It doesn't matter what label
they fall under, if they go against how you think even INNOCENTLY they
must DIE. That is how you operate. You want everyone to think and be like you. You want to rule over the people who are not like you. You want to deny them any right to speak up against you.

Where did you get this at? If I wanted to deny you the right to speak against me I would do what I do in real life and ignore you. By arguing with you, I make your opinion known. If I didn't argue with you, everybody would go right back to ignoring you.

Therefore, You're no better than the people you want to oust. This is common among dictator personalities. In the end the dictators turn out to be narcissistic, less tolerant, Lairs, and promise breakers. It's a Human flaw within us all. And Humans are not good creatures. Thats not Human nature. When a human is Good that's going against human nature.

it's true. Stop LYING. And I will bring it up every time you talk shit to me.
What argument? The argument has been over.

Obviously, that was clear in all the "quotes" above this one in this reply of yours.

Not what I heard. Also heard you dropped out the army because you couldn't hack it.

Everybody heard that. It was Double ML who said it.
However, (although this is completely irrelevant to what we're discussing) I did join the military at 18. My father was in the military, his father was in the military, his father faught in the U.S. Military after coming here from Europe. All of them faught. My grandfathers = WWII (both sides, my mother's and my father's). My brothers all served in the military as well. It wasn't a choice in our family.

I joined, got through boot camp, Expert with grenades and Sharp Shooter with the M-16. Scored the second highest in our company with the run and the highest with sits ups, push ups, and pull ups. My MOS was Combat Engineer. During my weekend pass I went to a strip club (underage), got drunk (one of the only times in my life) and ended up getting into a fight with an officer and put him through a window. I was discharged for that. I didn't "drop out" or "quit" . . .

Get your facts straight.

You had the emotional outbrust first.
And No You lost the Argument because you attacked me first.

"He started it!"



You're acting like a five year old. Take a step back and look and read through this thread. Of course I kept amping you up. But you let me. I knew what I was doing. You was calm in the beginning and I kept amping you up more and more. But I didn't insult you first. I can show you right where the first insult came in and it came from you. You don't have to admit it to me. Just look into it for yourself. It was a game all along, Menaz.

No you didn't understand.

Ok

[Anidawehi]

You choose to answer my Post on demcracy. My first post is the argument.
Do you remember the Argument? Obviously not, which is why you
commited Ad hominem fallacies to cover up how uncomperhensive
you are.

Menaz, you can't ask a question and answer it for the person.
If you're going to do that, talk to yourself.
There's no need for the other person.

Yes, I committed the Ad Hominem Fallacy.
But I did it consciously without emotion.
You did it in an emotional reactionary manner.
And you did throw the first insult. It wasn't a harsh one or even a direct one (it was very subtle) . . . but you did do it. You're not even aware when you do it.
Would you like me to show you where it happened?

nonsense.

"Mail" = letters. packages.

"male" = A guy. A man.

What does this apply to? Quote me and link me to the reply and it's number.
I have never spelled "male" as "mail." I don't make spelling errors like that.
If I did, I'll be very surprised. That's one of my pet peeves.

Got it cup cake?

Adorable, you're borrowing my insult and trying to use it against me.
I'm the only person who uses terms like "cup cake" and "sweetie" on RM.
Nobody else does that. Certainly not you.

Not that this has anything to do with the conversation.
but you do have Bush Derangement Syndrome.

Sounds like an epithet.
Probably a satirical phrase created by a republican or a journalist who supports Bush.

I know you'll have to google it.

Nope, I don't know what it means nor do I care.
It's a political epithet, obviously. No legit doctor would name a syndrome after George Bush.

BTW, using terms like BDS, is right wing propaganda.
Just so you know.

After you commited attacks first. you're gonna bring this up?LOL The argument has been over. I'm calling you names. Wake up! Plus it's what you are. You feed off the host providing. and you are insignificant. Nothing you say matters in the grand scheme of things.

Nothing matters in the grand scheme of things.
There is no grand scheme.



Remember, there's no God?
Oh, I get it . . . you're being sardonic again, right?
Or are you just being an idiot?

I said Obama is tackling aids. And he is.

Does "tackling" mean "discussing" in your dictionary?

Why you feelt to question that shows how stupid you are.

Of course, everything I say shows how stupid I am.




Well, I don't know about you cookie, but I'm bored.
Thus, I'm finished with this exchange of ours. Once it becomes (as you have demonstrated above), a 7500 word response full of insults . . . there's no reason to continue. Every reply I've made in this thread has been discussing the subject matter. As always, you have fallen into the trap of winding down to nothing but insults. You no longer have an argument. It's just "You suck, you're stupid, you're insignificant in the grand scheme of things, you're a moron, and you're an idiot."

I don't suspect that you're going to admit this.
You probably won't even acknowledge it to yourself.
But it is what it is.

No more insults from me. But I will point out every time that you do it. Just so you see how often you do with people.

[Anidawehi]

Originally Posted by menaz

In a more positive vein, the restoration of voting rights can be seen as being in harmony with the rehabilitative goal of sentencing. If an objective of sentencing is to encourage offenders to become less antisocial, then it is in society's interest to engage offenders in productive relationships with the community. Voting is clearly one means of doing so.



If someone is convicted of a felony and they have the choice between Disenfranchisement without prison time (meaning: probation for a felony) they will go with the disenfranchisement.

Well written and very logical.
Did you feel this way before I said it?

It's funny to me people say voting doesn't matter because some Shadowy figure preplains the elections, yet these same people bitch and complain about convicted felons not having the right to vote.

It doesn't matter in the sense that popular vote doesn't determine presidency.
We both know this. But it does matter when it comes to city, county and state elections.